Planck-Einstein relation and the Photoelectric Effect

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the Planck-Einstein relation and its application to the photoelectric effect. It clarifies that photons possess zero rest mass and cannot be brought to rest; their energy is defined by E = hf, where h is Planck's constant and f is the frequency of the photon. The kinetic energy of emitted electrons is calculated using KE = hf - w, where w represents the work function of the material. The concept of relativistic mass is deemed outdated and unnecessary for understanding the photoelectric effect.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the Planck-Einstein relation (E = hf)
  • Basic knowledge of the photoelectric effect
  • Familiarity with the concept of work function (w)
  • Awareness of the limitations of relativistic mass in modern physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Study the derivation and implications of the photoelectric effect in quantum mechanics
  • Explore the historical context and significance of Planck's constant (h)
  • Investigate the role of energy transfer in photon-electron interactions
  • Learn about modern interpretations of mass in quantum physics
USEFUL FOR

Students and educators in physics, particularly those focusing on quantum mechanics and the photoelectric effect, as well as anyone seeking to clarify misconceptions about photon mass and energy transfer.

Abu
Hi everyone, I just have some confusion regarding Planck's and Einstein's equation.
The following is an explanation of the photoelectric effect using Einsteins theory:
Light is composed of photons. Each photon has energy hf and mass hf/c^2. When ultraviolet photons are brought to rest by zinc, the mass of the photon changes to energy. This energy is used to break the binding energy between the outermost electron and the nucleus. The excess energy is carried by the electrons as kinetic energy.

Here is my confusion though:

When we ask for the energy of a photon, we say it is equal to E = hf. When a photon is brought to rest in the explanation of the photoelectric effect, it says the mass of the photon during its motion changes to energy. So shouldn't the energy of the photon be hf/c^2, not hf?

For example, we say that the kinetic energy of the electrons in the photoelectric effect is:
KE = hf - w where w is the work function.
How come it isn't KE = hf/c^2 minus w

Maybe I am misunderstanding the photoelectric effect when I say that the mass of the photon changes to energy? Perhaps the mass does not completely change into energy, and thus hf/c^2 is not applicable, only for E = mc^2?

If my question is unclear, let me know. Thank you very much.
 
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Photons have a mass of zero. Forget the concept of relativistic mass, it is not used any more. Photons cannot be brought to rest (at least not in the way you try to do that here). If the photons hit the metal their energy can be transferred to something else (typically an electron), they stop existing then.
Abu said:
This energy is used to break the binding energy between the outermost electron and the nucleus.
While that is possible, most of the time the electron that absorbs the photon is not bound in a specific atom.
Abu said:
So shouldn't the energy of the photon be hf/c^2, not hf?
That doesn't even have the right units to be an energy.
 
mfb said:
Photons have a mass of zero. Forget the concept of relativistic mass, it is not used any more. Photons cannot be brought to rest (at least not in the way you try to do that here). If the photons hit the metal their energy can be transferred to something else (typically an electron), they stop existing then.While that is possible, most of the time the electron that absorbs the photon is not bound in a specific atom.That doesn't even have the right units to be an energy.
Thank you so much for your input. Unfortunately, I cannot forget about relativistic mass because it is the way I am being taught currently, so I have to try my best to understand it. But I thought about my question as well as your response:
So from what I know now and what I am currently being taught, the photon has a relativistic mass of hf/c^2 (not used anymore, but I am still being taught it). So we can apply that to E = mc^2 where m is the relativistic mass, correct? So e = hf/c^2(c/^2), and now we have E = hf. So from that, in the explanation provided above that was said by my teacher, we can say that the energy provided by the relativistic mass of the photon is what is allowing the electrons to gain kinetic energy.

I'm sorry I had to disregard the comment on relativistic mass, but its crucial I understand it, I think, even though from what I've read it can run into a whole load of problems.

Thank you very much.
 
Abu said:
and now we have E = hf.
Right, and the detour via the mass didn't help. The photon has energy, this energy can be transferred to an electron. No masses involved.
 

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