Planet formation and star formation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the processes of planet and star formation, specifically focusing on the effects of the Sun's ignition on the surrounding planets, the formation of the Earth, and the characteristics of the solar system's structure. Participants explore theoretical implications, historical context, and the dynamics of early solar system evolution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the Sun's ignition would have caused a significant solar wind or shockwave, potentially pushing gas and dust away from the inner planets and affecting their orbits.
  • Others propose that the arrangement of rocky inner planets, the asteroid belt, and gas giants may be a result of the protosun igniting and clearing out excess gas, although this remains a point of speculation.
  • It is noted that the inner region of the protoplanetary disk was too hot for gases to exist, leading to the formation of rocky and metallic elements, which eventually became terrestrial planets and asteroids.
  • One participant highlights that the Earth likely did not exist at the time of the Sun's birth, as stars form quickly while planets take longer to develop from planetesimals.
  • There is a question raised about the origin of the asteroid belt, with some suggesting it may be remnants of a failed terrestrial planet or influenced by the gravitational effects of gas giants.
  • Participants mention the phenomenon of "Hot Jupiters," gas giants found close to their host stars, and discuss theories regarding their migration from farther out in the solar system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various hypotheses and interpretations regarding the formation of planets and the solar system's structure, with no clear consensus reached on the specifics of these processes.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on assumptions about the conditions in the early solar system, and there are unresolved questions regarding the timeline of planet formation relative to star formation.

TShock
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When our star the Sun finally accumulated enough matter for fusion to start what would that have done to the planets around it? Afterward what would have happened to the Earth for it to get from when the sun started fusion and blasted the Earth and now, with water and atmosphere?
 
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I think it would have caused a huge solar wind or "shockwave" if you will. Pushing most of the remaining gas & dust in the what was left of the initial dust/gas cloud. Keep in mind, when this was happening, there was no water or atmosphere to speak of on earth.. really, Earth wasn't even earth, it was more of a proto-planet. I'm not sure how much of an impact it would have on the planets at that point in there evolution. My guess is it would probably shift their orbits outward {relative to their distance from the sun} and shower the planets with radiation..

.. is that what you're looking for...?
 
I might be mistaken but I always thought that the fact we have 3 rocky inner planets, the asteroid belt and then gas giants is a result of the protosun igniting, blowing off any excess gas from the 3 inner planets and driving loose debris outwards forming the asteroid belt (but more or less leaving the gas giants alone which gathered up the relegated gas). From what I've read, astronomers are puzzled when they find a massive gas giant exoplanet orbiting so close to a host star as they imply this wouldn't form naturally and would expect to find rocky planets so close, the only explanation being that the gas giant was captured after the sun had formed, meaning it wasn't around for the initial fusion ignition.

The arrangement of our solar system (rocky inner planets, astroid belt, gas giants) might have more to do with orbital mechanics but the idea that this is the result of some 'ignition' within the Sun seems initially plausible.
 
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As others have mentioned the inner region of the protoplanetary disk would have been very hot. It would have been too hot for gases to exist and so you get the rocky and metallic elements forming planitesimals in this region. These would eventually become the terrestrial planets and the asteroids from the asteroid belt. At this time The terrestrial planets may have had a hydrogen and helium atmosphere which will have been blasted away. A secondary atmosphere is believed to have been accumulated later once everything had settled down through a combination of gases trapped in the material they formed from and comets.

The important thing here any way is that the early Earth was nothing like it is today during the turbulent times at the birth of the sun.
 
Recent developments in the evolution of the early solar system indicate that the Earth didn't even exist at the time of the birth of the Sun. Stars form quickly; planets are a lot slower to form. We have now observed many young stars that remain surrounded by a dust/gas nebula. Infant stars do not shine all that brightly; it takes several million years for a young star to clear out the gas and tens of millions to clear out the dust. This gives the planets time to form from planetesimals. Jupiter was most likely the first planet to form and aided in the formation of the other planets.

A recent Scientific American article on planetary formation is at http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-genesis-of-planets".
 
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Kurdt said:
...and the asteroids form the asteroid belt...
A side question, how did the asteroid belt get there? a failed terrestrial planet maybe? I remember being told as a child that another planet/asteroid smashed into what "was" a planet, leaving its shattered remains as the belt we currently see... Anybody know? {or atleast have a better idea?}

stevebd1 said:
... astronomers are puzzled when they find a massive gas giant exoplanet orbiting so close to a host star as they imply this wouldn't form naturally and would expect to find rocky planets so close...
My instructor called them, "Hot Jupiters" {http://exoplanets.org/massradiiframe.html" }.. I was looking for the nice little animation he showed in class, but I can't seem to find it. Anyway, he stated that some think that these HJ's started out farther and have migrated inwards.
 
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The most likely answer IMHO is that the asteroid belt formed in that region because it was the very edge of the terrestrial planet forming region and was under the influence of the larger gas giant planets. This prevented the earlier terrestrial planetesimals from accreting the material.
 

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