[Plasma physcis] fluid equation

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    Fluid Physcis
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the fluid equation in plasma physics, specifically focusing on the interpretation of terms within the equation, such as the divergence of the pressure tensor and the nature of the electromagnetic fields involved. Participants explore the relationship between the equation and concepts from continuum mechanics, as well as seek recommendations for complementary textbooks.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the fluid equation and expresses confusion about the term \nabla\cdot P, questioning its interpretation as a force from pressure.
  • Another participant draws an analogy between the fluid equation and Newton's second law, suggesting that the left-hand side represents mass times acceleration, while the right-hand side breaks down the forces acting on the fluid.
  • A different participant clarifies that the divergence of the pressure tensor represents the force associated with gas pressure and notes that the pressure tensor is generally diagonal in plasma, indicating that temperatures can differ in directions relative to a magnetic field.
  • Several participants recommend Francis Chen's textbook as a foundational resource for plasma physics and suggest additional texts, including an e-book by Fitzpatrick, for more advanced topics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the macroscopic nature of the electromagnetic fields in the equation and the interpretation of the pressure tensor. However, there is some contention regarding the correct representation of the pressure term, with suggestions that it may be a typo in the original text. The discussion about textbook recommendations shows a consensus on the value of Chen's book, but no definitive agreement on alternatives.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the correct interpretation of the pressure tensor and its representation in the fluid equation, as well as the assumptions made about viscosity in the context of the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and researchers interested in plasma physics, particularly those looking for foundational texts and clarifications on fluid equations in the context of plasma behavior.

good_phy
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Hi i just learned fluide equation form chen textbok

The equation is mn\left[ \frac{\partial u}{\partial t}+(u\cdot\nabla)u\right]=qn(E+u\times B)-\nabla\cdot P - \frac{mn(u-u_{o})}{\tau}. where P is pressure and last term is collision between charged particle and the nutral

I was confusing what is exactly \nabla\cdot P, force from pressure.

I think in strictly saying, in microsopic view, only electromagnetic force is imposing on each particle and pressure

is also E.M force. and E and B in this equation is Macroscopic field ( external field), not

microscopic field.

Is it right?
 
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That equation looks analogous to ma=F, but written in terms of continuum mechanics. The LHS is ma, or m Dv/Dt, where the D/Dt is called the 'total', or 'material' derivative. The RHS is the force, broken down into electromagnetic (qn(E x uxB)), hydrostatic (divergence of the stress tensor) and some other term which I am unfamiliar with. Normally this is a vector equation, and the term 'P' is a stress tensor, not a (pressure) scalar.

The tensor 'P', based on what is written, is the total stress tensor which can usually be decomposed into an isotropic term (the pressure) and a term relating to the viscosity.

If the book insists that 'P' is the pressure, then it's a typo, and that term should be grad(P), not div(P). Also, the text assumes the fluid is inviscid, since there's no viscosity.
 
good_phy,

Yes, the E and B in the equation are macroscopic. The divergence of the pressure tensor represents the force associated with the gas pressure; usually in a plasma the pressure tensor is diagonal to a very good approximation (the off-diagonal terms represent viscosity). It is not a scalar since, in general, the temperatures can be different parallel and perpendicular to a magnetic field. Don't worry about these funny cases at first - get used to working with scalar pressure and you will get a good feel for the physics.

Jason
 
Thank you for sharing me. Then i'll ask you what is the good plasma physics textbook

which is good combination with Chen book?

did you get any idea?
 
good_phy said:
Thank you for sharing me. Then i'll ask you what is the good plasma physics textbook

which is good combination with Chen book?

did you get any idea?

Ha, I always end up recommending Francis Chen's book in the first place.
 
good_phy said:
Thank you for sharing me. Then i'll ask you what is the good plasma physics textbook

which is good combination with Chen book?

did you get any idea?

I will agree with Born2bwire: Chen's book is probably the best place to start. It is clearly written, avoids non-essential mathematics that would add no insight, and contains a ton of physics. If you really want another source, check out the e-book by Fitzpatrick:

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/plasma/plasma.html

It is more advanced than Chen but is quite well written and is free! I also like his coverage of waves a little better than Chen's.

Good luck,

Jason
 
Thanks
 

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