How does a pressure distribution keep the fluid from moving?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of pressure distribution in fluids and its role in preventing fluid motion, particularly in the context of gravitational forces and potential energy. Participants explore theoretical implications and conditions under which fluids remain at rest or begin to flow, considering both conservative and non-conservative forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a fluid column under gravitational force and derives the relationship between pressure gradient and force equilibrium, questioning how pressure distribution prevents fluid motion.
  • Another participant asserts that pressure distribution prevents fluid from accelerating, emphasizing that a lack of acceleration is necessary to maintain the fluid at rest.
  • A participant raises a question about the existence of pressure in a fluid without gravitational force, suggesting that pressure may not exist without an external conservative force.
  • One participant references Euler's equation for ideal fluids, indicating that in static situations, the pressure gradient equals the product of fluid density and gravitational acceleration.
  • Another participant states that if there is no gravitational force, the pressure gradient must be zero, but pressure can still vary based on external conditions, such as air in a tire.
  • Questions are posed regarding the presence of pressure when subjected to non-conservative forces, with some participants suggesting that equilibrium cannot be maintained in such cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions under which pressure exists and its role in fluid motion. There is no consensus on whether pressure can exist without conservative forces, and the implications of non-conservative forces on fluid equilibrium remain contested.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the role of pressure in different scenarios, such as the absence of gravitational forces and the effects of non-conservative forces on fluid behavior. The discussion reflects varying assumptions about the nature of pressure and equilibrium in fluids.

Adesh
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Let’s say we have a unit volume of some fluid in a column on the Earth surface. Let ##\mathbf F## be the gravitational force that acts on the unit volume of the fluid.

Consider a small volume element ##\Delta \tau## in the fluid and let’s assume it to be a cuboid with dimensions ##\Delta x##, ##\Delta y## and ##\Delta z##. The seemingly backward face of ##\Delta \tau## have ##x## coordinate as ##x## and the forward face would have the ##x+\Delta x## as coordinate.
Now, forces acting in the ##x-##direction: backwards face = ##p(x) \Delta y \Delta z##
forwards face = ## -p(x+\Delta x) \Delta y \Delta z##
on the whole fluid =##F_x \Delta \tau##. For equilibrium we must have $$ \left(
p(x+\Delta x) - p(x) \right) \Delta y \Delta z = F_x \Delta \tau \\
\frac{\partial p}{\partial x} \Delta x \Delta y \Delta z = F_x \Delta \tau \\
F_x = \frac{\partial p}{\partial x}$$

Similarly, for other directions and therefore we have $$ \mathbf F = \nabla p$$ .

My problem is that Mr. Arnold Sommerfeld is saying that this pressure distribution is keeping the fluid from moving. He gives the reason that gravity has a potential and can be written like $$\mathbf F = - \nabla U$$ And for this he says
Equilibrium is only possible if the external force has a potential.

My problem is how is potential or pressure distribution is keeping the fluid from moving? I think it is the lower wall and side walls of the column that is preventing the fluid from moving. I’m sceptical because later on he proves that if the force were to be magnetic, then fluid will start to flow in a circular motion. What is the significance of ##\nabla P## and ##\nabla U##?

Please explain me what is he trying to emphasise.
 
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Adesh said:
My problem is how is potential or pressure distribution is keeping the fluid from moving?
The pressure distribution is preventing the fluid from accelerating. If the fluid starts from rest, a lack of acceleration is sufficient to keep it at rest. A lack of acceleration is also required to keep the fluid at rest.

The author is expecting you to consider the interior of the fluid volume. He does not seem concerned here with the conditions at the boundaries of the volume.
 
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jbriggs444 said:
The pressure distribution is preventing the fluid from accelerating.
Wasn’t there any pressure in fluid when there was no gravitational force? I mean will there be a pressure when there is no external conservative force?
 
Take an ideal fluid. Then Euler's equation reads
$$\rho \mathrm{D}_t \vec{v}=\rho (\partial_t \vec{v} + (\vec{v} \cdot \vec{\nabla} \vec{v})=-\vec{\nabla} P+ \rho \vec{g},$$
were I assumed only the gravitational force close to Earth as an external force. In static situations the left-hand side vanishes and then
$$\vec{\nabla} P=\rho \vec{g}.$$
 
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Adesh said:
Wasn’t there any pressure in fluid when there was no gravitational force? I mean will there be a pressure when there is no external conservative force?
The pressure gradient in such a case must be zero. As @vanhees71 showed above.

The pressure can take on any value. For instance, it depends on how much air you put in the tire.
 
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Will there be no pressure (or any value of pressure) when the fluid is subjected to a non-conservative force?
 
Adesh said:
Will there be no pressure (or any value of pressure) when the fluid is subjected to a non-conservative force?
You cannot have an equilibrium in such a case. There can be pressure, certainly. But the fluid will also be accelerating.
 
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Thank you so much.
 

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