Playing the guitar, the difference between being good and being a genius....

[sbrothy]

In danger of blowing my own horn I consider myself moderately good at playing the guitar. Other people even tell me so. But, every time there's any danger of it going to my head I listen to this particular piece and I'm instantly put in my place:

 

[jedishrfu]

There are quite few exceptional guitarists that I've heard over the years:
- Chet Atkins
- George Harrison of the Beatles
- Led Kapana playing Hawaiian slack key guitar
- Charo playing Malagueña (a student of Andres Segovia)
- Jake Shimabukuru playing the Beatles My Guitar Gently Weeps on a concert ukelele
- Andres Segovia (Grandmaster of Spanish Guitar) playing anything
- Roy Clark multi instrumentalist of Hee Haw playing malagueña or anything

And many others...

 

[DennisN]

Two awesome performances I've posted elsewhere:

Dire Straits - Sultans Of Swing (Alchemy Live)
- not only Mark Knopfler on guitar is great, the entire band shines here!



Stevie Ray Vaughan - Texas Flood (Live at the El Mocambo)
- outstanding

 

[jackjack2025]

There are quite few exceptional guitarists that I've heard over the years:
- Chet Atkins
- George Harrison of the Beatles
- Led Kapana playing Hawaiian slack key guitar
- Charo playing Malagueña (a student of Andres Segovia)
- Jake Shimabukuru playing the Beatles My Guitar Gently Weeps on a concert ukelel
- Andres Segovia (Grandmaster of Spanish Guitar) playing anything
- Roy Clark multi instrumentalist of Hee Haw playing malagueña or anything

And many others...

Jimi Hendrix

 

[sbrothy]

Two awesome performances I've posted elsewhere:

Dire Straits - Sultans Of Swing (Alchemy Live)
- not only Mark Knopfler on guitar is great, the entire band shines here!



Stevie Ray Vaughan - Texas Flood (Live at the El Mocambo)
- outstanding

Two of my favorites there. I've heard Dire Straits Live. DKR 250,- (divide by 6 for a ballpark value in American dollars). Another time.

 

[sbrothy]

Stevie is in my book for the slowest, angriest slow blues ever played. Admittedly, he's not the best vocalist (better than Joe Satriani though ), but in Tokyo he really showed who mastered the art. Various places in the song it's like it almost stops, only to continue. I'm impressed with the drummer who can keep down that tempo:



In the song he sings something along the line that "someone fired a gun", and then he almost makes his guitar sound like a gunshot.

I kowtow to Stevie!

 

[Hornbein]

There are maybe half a billion guitarists in this world so there would be five hundred one-in-a-million practitioners. I'll confine myself to non-world-famous players who could use more recognition.

Gabriella Quevedo

She plays remarkably cleanly. The guitar is a "dirty" instrument, it tends to squeaks, and whistles and buzzes. "Even Segovia has finger scratch" -- Tony Tedesco. That whistling comes from moving fretting hand fingers sideways while still in contact with the string. You have to lift them straight out, not easy because you are in a hurry to get to the next position. Even she can't eliminate this but gets it to a tolerable level. Electric guitars cover all this up, maybe that's cheating.

In general I say that non-musicians don't understand tone. One of the hardest things about most musical instruments is getting a great tone. Amateurs think this is the result of having the best equipment, but actually that doesn't make that much difference. How do the greats do it? It's a mystery.

Recently electronics have developed enough that electric guitarists can buy tone. I'm OK with that, but think the achievements of those who can do things the natural way should be recognized. Maybe to make a beautiful sound on your own you have to be a beautiful person.



Kent Nishimura



Note that that guitar has a pickup. That eliminates finger scratch.

Mary N

On the other hand, if you can get a great sound by using a ton of electronics then more power to you. Andy Summers comes to mind. The Queen of this though is Mary N. I think though she would still sound great without all that stuff. How much talent can you cram into one person?



As far as rock guitarists go the ones who impress me the most are the ones who play the best backing guitar, playing behind a singer usually. That's what you spend most of your time doing so shouldn't it be most important? In this vein I'd go with Eddie Van Halen. There are bootlegs of his isolated guitar parts, without the rest of the band cluttering things up. You can hear all sorts of detail and inflection. Dang that sounds beautiful. I hear that and I think, what a genius. Wait, didn't I say non-famous players? Yes, but he's famed for his uberflashy solos, not for this.



And what a waste. He could not resist booze. That can happen with very sensitive men, they have to anaesthetize themselves to deal with this world, Jerry Garcia being a prime example. It makes me cry.

As far as guitar genius goes you can't beat Joni Mitchell. Jimmy Page was in awe of her. At a party he was offered to be introduced to Joni but was too ashamed of himself to show his face. How sad.



There are all sorts of highly skilled guitarists in country music. "They can pick more notes than the number of ants on a Tennessee anthill." Then there's slide guitar [Johnny Winter] and fusion [Greg Howe] and dobro [Jerry Douglas]. We gotta draw the line somewhere, eh? This could go on forever.

Finally here's a personal favorite that most of y'all won't like. To me this epitomizes rock and roll guitar. I like the way in the middle of his solo he just stops. He'd said what he'd wanted to say, why go on further?



Shortly after this James Williamson abruptly disappeared from the scene. I thought he was dead from a heroin overdose, found out later he'd become an electrical engineer.

 

[marcusl]

Shortly after this James Williamson abruptly disappeared from the scene. I thought he was dead from a heroin overdose, found out later he'd become an electrical engineer.

Which is worse?

 

[hutchphd]

No one has mentioned Doc Watson. I saw him and his son Merle play in Yellow Springs Ohio in the early 1970's. Blown away.
And then there is mississippi John Hurt. How can you bottle that?

 

[BWV]

 

[DaveE]

The list is long. We can all add famous names. Not mentioned yet:
-Leo Kottke
-Jorma Kaukonen
-Al Di Meola
-Pat Metheny
-John McLaughlin
-Junior Brown

But I'll highlight Michael Hedges. Good, interesting, different, and not that well known.

 

[pinball1970]

No one has mentioned Doc Watson. I saw him and his son Merle play in Yellow Springs Ohio in the early 1970's. Blown away.
And then there is mississippi John Hurt. How can you bottle that?

Don't know this player, I will check him out.

 

[pinball1970]

What a great thread!
I love the guitar but I do not have the fingers, my little finger does a stupid movement when I am playing single notes. Ok for chords.
The best players do not have these jerky movements.
Jan Ackerman from the Dutch 1970s band Focus for me as an all rounder was the best.
Great sound, always original solos, no other player I heard from that era would choose those notes.
It helped that the chord structure to the music was complex.
Classical, jazz and rock all in one player, genius.

 

[pinball1970]

Street Walker. This was after Focus.

 

[pinball1970]

He described this piece as "a little hectic..."

 

[pinball1970]

Richie Blackmore, putting Hendrix, who he admired, together with blues and classical in 1970.

The solo begins 8.38

 

[sbrothy]

To complete the picture these two instrumental pieces are played by Stevie. One is a cover of Hendrix's LIttle Wing although Stevie happily keeps his mouth closed. I know it's almost sacrilege to say out loud, but in my opinion Stevie does it better than Jimi!



The other one is Riviera Paradise with Stevie and Double Trouble:



EDIT: But man, so much to listen to.... Thanks guys!

 

[sbrothy]

Oh, and btw this deserves mention too (Paco de Lucia, Al de Meola and John McLaughlin playing acoustic jazzy flamenco). I tried to learn playing the tracks just listening and repeating (a process I succeeded with with a lot of other artists). I was very frustrated until I found out that there were 3 players! Felt a little stupid there.

Friday Night in San Francisco -Mediterranean Sundance / Rio Ancho (Live at Warfield Theatre, San Francisco, CA - December 5, 1980)

 

[Mark44]

Don't know this player, I will check him out.

(Referring to Mississippi John Hurt)
One of my favorites since 1971, whose playing influenced a whole lot of guitarists.

Another of my personal favorites is Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane and later Hot Tuna. I've seen Jorma when he was with Jefferson Airplane sometime in '67 or early '68 and once again when he was with fellow Airplane alumnus Jack Casady, in Hot Tuna. Mark Knopfler has already been mentioned. I saw Knopfler in the early 90s, I guess just before he left Dire Straits. I'm also a longtime fan of Leo Kottke.

 

[sbrothy]

Richie Blackmore, putting Hendrix, who he admired, together with blues and classical in 1970.

The solo begins 8.38

Well, if we're talking about solos.... Nevermore is like a little in depth to Megadeath, Their main vocalist is an opera singer by education though. It's makes a difference. They're one of the the bands who's live concerts live up to their studio albums.

I've yet to hear a more brilliantly harmonically apt, and technically well presented solo in this old number ("Timothy Leary! Where are you noooow? The world needs you... [...] " :P )



Solo starts 2:57, after "[...] IMMOOOOORTAAAAAL! [...]"

 

[sbrothy]

(Referring to Mississippi John Hurt)
One of my favorites since 1971, whose playing influenced a whole lot of guitarists.

Another of my personal favorites is Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane and later Hot Tuna. I've seen Jorma when he was with Jefferson Airplane sometime in '67 or early '68 and once again when he was with fellow Airplane alumnus Jack Casady, in Hot Tuna. Mark Knopfler has already been mentioned. I saw Knopfler in the early 90s, I guess just before he left Dire Straits. I'm also a longtime fan of Leo Kottke.

Don't know all the artists you mention, but if you like Jefferson Airplane I'll give my stamp in full confidence.

 

[sbrothy]

(Referring to Mississippi John Hurt)
One of my favorites since 1971, whose playing influenced a whole lot of guitarists.

Another of my personal favorites is Jorma Kaukonen of Jefferson Airplane and later Hot Tuna. I've seen Jorma when he was with Jefferson Airplane sometime in '67 or early '68 and once again when he was with fellow Airplane alumnus Jack Casady, in Hot Tuna. Mark Knopfler has already been mentioned. I saw Knopfler in the early 90s, I guess just before he left Dire Straits. I'm also a longtime fan of Leo Kottke.

You mentioned Leo Kottke so offhandedly that I had to check him out. Thanks for that pearl!

 

[Mark44]

You mentioned Leo Kottke so offhandedly that I had to check him out. Thanks for that pearl!

Kottke does a lot of instrumentals, but he does sing in a few of his songs. One that I really like is "Louise," and another is "Pamela Brown." A favorite instrumental of his is "The Fisherman." You can find all of these on Youtube.

 

[Mark44]

Regarding Mississippi John Hurt, I remember reading an article in Guitar Player magazine years ago. Hurt recorded some songs back about 100 years ago, but with the arrival of amplified blues, he fell out of favor. A folk-music archivist, Alan Lomax, was travelling around the country back about 1965 with a goal of finding folk artists and/or music of the past.

He knew that Hurt had a song called "Avalon," which referred to a small town in Mississippi. Lomax went into the post office there, to ask if anyone had heard of Miss. John Hurt. The postmaster told him that Hurt was still alive and lived a couple houses down the street.

Lomax went to the house to find Hurt at home. At the time, Hurt didn't even own a guitar, so Lomax took one out of the trunk of his car. Hurt immediate started playing as if no time at all had gone by since he had made recordings 40-some years in the past.

I believe Lomax recorded at least 20 of Hurt's songs, enough for a couple of albums of country blues. I first heard of him about 1971 and have been a fan ever since.

Here are links to a couple of his songs:
Richland Woman Blues:

Casey Jones:

 

[symbolipoint]

Post #24, wonderful report about expository information about a guitar blues player.

 

[symbolipoint]

To original poster @sbrothy, post #1:

The best generalized answer is this online article:

 

[symbolipoint]

@sbrothy,
Although your o.p. is focused on guitar playing, to be aware that a very very creative artist, Brian Wilson, has from formal education, only an associate degree in Music, might be interesting to know.

 

[robphy]

Jason Becker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Becker
https://jasonbecker.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cacophony_(band)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_David_Lee_Roth_Band#A_Little_Ain't_Enough

---

'Jason Becker: Not Dead Yet' [Film Trailer]


jason becker solo live japan


NEW NEVER SEEN FOOTAGE - Jason Becker Shows Arpeggios,Japan `89


Jason Becker Age 15 Rare video

• Perpetual Burn (studio version) - Jason Becker

JEFF LOOMIS - Perpetual Burn (Jason Becker Cover)

 

[sbrothy]

@sbrothy,
Although your o.p. is focused on guitar playing, to be aware that a very very creative artist, Brian Wilson, has from formal education, only an associate degree in Music, might be interesting to know.

Indeed. I respect education. In all it forms. (Probably because I have virtually none myself. )

 

[sbrothy]

To original poster @sbrothy, post #1:

The best generalized answer is this online article:

I'd like to read this article but I can't seem to get at it. Could you post (or maybe PM) a proper link?

 

[symbolipoint]

I'd like to read this article but I can't seem to get at it. Could you post (or maybe PM) a proper link?

I will take some time to try again. I had simply copied the link as in the browser textfield bar and pasted into the message body.

 

[symbolipoint]

That exact link in post #30, you'll have to reconstruct as interpreted from what I say:

hopefully you are a native English speaker.
ache tee tee pee ess, colon, slash slash
medium dot com, slash
@cvrsekharan, slash
this phrase in all lower case and each word separated by hyphen and without the quotes: "unveiling-the-secrets-of-musical-genius-nature-nurture-and-early-starters"
slash
hyphen
033174004b3e

I would have suggested to try your own search but I forgot the exact wording I used in starting my search.

 

[gmax137]

Billy Strings. Bluegrass to Hendrix.

 

[sbrothy]

That exact link in post #30, you'll have to reconstruct as interpreted from what I say:

hopefully you are a native English speaker.
ache tee tee pee ess, colon, slash slash
medium dot com, slash
@cvrsekharan, slash
this phrase in all lower case and each word separated by hyphen and without the quotes: "unveiling-the-secrets-of-musical-genius-nature-nurture-and-early-starters"
slash
hyphen
033174004b3e

I would have suggested to try your own search but I forgot the exact wording I used in starting my search.

I'm not but I will find it. Thank you.

 

[symbolipoint]

sbrothy,
I expressed the link like that in post #34 because, when I made my post #30, I simply pasted the text of the hyperlink; and then when you clicked on it, the page did not work for you. I also notice that in post #30, you cannot see just the exact hyperlink text, since it be turned into something else. When I click on it, doing so takes me to the intended page.

 

[robphy]

Try
medium.com/@cvrsekharan/unveiling-the-secrets-of-musical-genius-nature-nurture-and-early-starters-033174004b3e

 

[symbolipoint]

Try
medium.com/@cvrsekharan/unveiling-the-secrets-of-musical-genius-nature-nurture-and-early-starters-033174004b3e

I post here just to be able to toggle - on the square bracket button so I can see the tag you used. URL. Thanks.

 

[Hornbein]

David Lindley on slide guitar.

 

[sbrothy]

He described this piece as "a little hectic..."

Heh, I'm always confused when there are more than 6 strings. Funny with the Danish connection though!

Reminds me of the Swedish poet C. M Bellman. Nearly all his poems are about drinking your brains out, searching for the meaning of life among the crayfish droppings under the table, having sex and dying. All the really important things really.

Without understanding Swedish I'm sure it's pretty pointless though:



EDIT: Sorry this was the one. :)

 

[pinball1970]

One of my favourite songs by Yes and the guitar work is very good from the acoustic and electric side.



It is a beautiful track a nice start but what attracted me was the interplay between Anderson and Howe in the early verses, its quite minimal but the parts just fit perfectly.

For Yes, this is as close to a “song” you can get to, “Wonderous Stories” is a palatable song for people not used to Yes (one time, one key, no weird jump ins, add ons etc etc) the chords are cyclic and there is a verse chorus thing going on.

So, it is less Yes-like UNTIL the piano comes things go a little bonkers and then Howe goes to the electric.

Some nice lines, a tonne of sustain then he gets to the verse and it sounds like he doing modes as there is one peddle note.

Each run finishes in the next note of the scale but there are four chords in the back ground over that peddle.

Have a listen.

The song is based on Pygmalion apparently although this is about Roan making a statue of his lover before she dies, she dies, he dies then they are reunited ( I think – its Yes.)

 

[symbolipoint]

@sbrothy,
Although your o.p. is focused on guitar playing, to be aware that a very very creative artist, Brian Wilson, has from formal education, only an associate degree in Music, might be interesting to know.

While trying to recheck on that fact, maybe I much earlier misunderstood what I thought I had found; or I found information which was false.

I am seeing some online articles saying that he was studying for a associate degree in Psychology but stopped short by one semester and did not graduate. He was mostly self-taught musically.

 

[sbrothy]

Sorry for zombifying this old thread but I stumbled across this one and I... I... miss words.... Obviously, I'm aware that classical and/or flamenco (I don't even know which genre to put this in!) guitar isn't for everyone but I was flabbergasted!

 

[symbolipoint]

I... I... miss words.... Obviously, I'm aware that classical and/or flamenco (I don't even know which genre to put this in!) guitar isn't for everyone but I was flabbergasted!

Just my limited best guess, something from Romani culture, may strongly influenced by old folk trends of the Balkans region?

 

[sbrothy]

Yeh. That ended up being my guess too. Mazurka perhaps?

But man. Hardcore technique.

 

[symbolipoint]

Yeh. That ended up being my guess too. Mazurka perhaps?

But man. Hardcore technique.

Not sure. I would not say Mazurka. What I find interesting is|

---

I am having big trouble trying to edit this
Some long sections , the note striking was done completely with his fretting/finger-board hand.

| done using the fretting/finger board hand. Pull-offs, hammer-ons.

 

[symbolipoint]

According to the video title, "Hora" is shown. T

---

Suggestion based on a few searches seems to indicate, Romanian.

(I tried to edit this too, and it is messed-up).

 

[sbrothy]

You're probably right. I think I got it confused with what I read about it:

"The Mazurka is a Polish musical form based on stylised folk dances in triple meter, usually at a lively tempo, with character defined mostly by the prominent mazur's "strong accents unsystematically placed on the second or third beat [...] ".

and one I listened to later. Something like this: Mazurka D major Op.33 no. 2 (or 3) played by Lubka Kolessa

 

[sbrothy]

What i find incredible is how he can play like that with his left hand only on an acoustic guitar. I could understand it if done on an electric, but accentuating so clearly on an acoustic using only one hand strikes me as close to impossible. But clearly not!

Hence my flabbergastedness(?) :)

EDIT: So yeah, I'm really nonplussed. Do you have other fun words along the same lines? It is a linguistics forum after all...

Dumbfounded yeah, but I was searching for something a little more esoteric.

EDIT: flummoxed, gobsmacked?

 

[sbrothy]

But yeah, a little sunbeam: I took my terminally cancer-stricken mother out to buy nail-glue. I've never bought nail products before so having a woman beside me struck me as a good idea. So now I have glasfiber-base, glasfiber-powder and nailglue, so I'm ready to leave blues and take up flamenco.

On a darker note though: Her condition scared the bejeezus out of me!

 

[symbolipoint]

Be just reminded, this part of the forum is for "Art, music, history, and linguistics".

To the demonstration of playing a guitar with the left hand for both note selection/control AND striking or in other ways percussing the strings, check this other "Estudio Mano Izquierda":

(this extra link, deleting)
Not the way I want to place. I want to make the URL tag work but pf is changing what I put in.


NOTE: The musical playing begins at 0:24 of the timeline.
edit: I removed the redundant link & thumbnail, so just one is shown now.