Potential Energies: Same Value, Different Minima?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the comparison of two potential energy expressions, \( U_1 \) and \( U_2 \), and their implications in terms of physical systems and coordinate transformations. Participants explore whether the same energy values at different minima indicate identical physical situations or distinct systems. The conversation also touches on the representation of these potentials in terms of spherical harmonics and the resulting implications for Hamiltonians.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that both potential energies \( U_1 \) and \( U_2 \) yield the same value but have different minima, questioning whether this indicates the same physics or different physical situations.
  • Another participant suggests that the change from cosine to sine could imply identical physical systems with a rotated coordinate system.
  • A further inquiry is made about the potential equivalence of a third potential \( U_3 \), which introduces a different coordinate scaling, leading to the possibility of different physical systems or coordinate systems.
  • One participant raises a concern about expressing \( \sin^2\theta \sin 2 \phi \) in terms of spherical harmonics, noting that this results in complex energies when included in a Hamiltonian.
  • The Hamiltonian presented involves spherical harmonics \( Y_{2,-2} \) and \( Y_{2,2} \), leading to questions about the implications of complex terms in the context of physical systems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the potential energies represent the same physical situation or different systems. There is no consensus on the implications of the spherical harmonics representation and the resulting Hamiltonian.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the nature of the potentials and their physical interpretations, as well as the mathematical steps involved in relating them to spherical harmonics. The implications of complex energies in the Hamiltonian remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying potential energy in physics, coordinate transformations, spherical harmonics, and their applications in quantum mechanics.

Physicslad78
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Hi guys... I have a small question on potential energies:
I have got two potential energies: <br /> \begin{equation}<br /> U_1=-\frac{k^2}{2}+\frac{w\sqrt{3}}{2}\sin^2\theta \cos 2 \phi<br /> \end{equation}<br />

and <br /> \begin{equation}<br /> <br /> U_2==-\frac{k^2}{2}+\frac{w\sqrt{3}}{2}\sin^2\theta \sin 2 \phi<br /> \end{equation}<br />
where k is a constant and 0<theta<pi and 0<phi<2 pi. I minimized both of these and found that say for k=1, w=0.5 both U1 and U2 have the SAME value (-0.9333 I guess) but DIFFERENT minima...Does it mean that the two potentials represent the same physics or could the physical situations corresponding to both be different?


Thanks
 
Last edited:
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A cosine changes to a sine, so that could be viewed as corresponding to identical physical systems, with a coordinate system rotated by 90 degrees.
 
Oh Yeah..True! thanks a lot alxm...But i presume they would not be equivalent to
<br /> \begin{equation}<br /> U_3=-\frac{k^2}{2}+\frac{w\sqrt{3}}{2}\sin 2\theta \cos\phi\end{equation}
?
 
Well, then you've scaled a coordinate. Could be either a different physical system or a different coordinate system.
 
yep..thanks a lot..One final question..If I want to write \sin^2\theta \sin 2 \phi in terms of spherical Harmonics..I think these are related to the Y_{2,-2} and Y_{2,2} spherical Harmonics but there will be an i appearing and this term will be a part of a Hamiltonian so I will end up with complex energies! Is there a way out of this. In fact the Hamiltonian I get is :
<br /> \begin{equation}<br /> H=i~w~\sqrt{\frac{2\pi}{5}}~ (Y_{2,-2}-Y_{2,2}).<br /> \end{equation}<br />

Thanks again
 
Last edited:

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