Primary Ideals, prime ideals and maximal ideals - D&F Section 15.2

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a specific proof related to primary ideals, maximal ideals, and their properties as presented in Dummit and Foote's text, particularly Proposition 19 Part (5). Participants are examining the implications of the radical of a maximal ideal and the conditions under which it holds.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Peter questions why the radical of a maximal ideal M is equal to M, given that M is maximal and no ideal can contain M.
  • Some participants suggest using a proof by contradiction to explore the implications of assuming that rad(M) equals R.
  • Peter proposes that if 1 is in rad(M), then it leads to the conclusion that M must equal R, which contradicts the definition of a maximal ideal.
  • Another participant confirms that Peter's reasoning leads to a contradiction, reinforcing the properties of maximal ideals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that Peter's reasoning leads to a contradiction regarding the nature of maximal ideals, but there is ongoing exploration of the implications and definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working through the definitions and properties of ideals, particularly focusing on the radical of an ideal and the implications of maximality. There are nuances in the definitions that may affect the understanding of the proof.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in abstract algebra, particularly those studying ideal theory and properties of rings, may find this discussion relevant.

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I am studying Dummit and Foote Section 15.2. I am trying to understand the proof of Proposition 19 Part (5) on page 682 (see attachment)

Proposition 19 Part (5) reads as follows:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proposition 19.

... ...

(5) Suppose M is a maximal ideal and Q is an ideal with M^n \subseteq Q \subseteq M for some n \ge 1.

Then Q is a primary idea, with rad Q = M

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------The proof of (5) above reads as follows:----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proof.

Suppose M^n \subseteq Q \subseteq M for some n \ge 1 where M is a maximal idea.

Then Q \subseteq M so rad \ Q \subseteq rad \ M = M.

... ... etc

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My problem is as follows:

Why can we be sure that rad M = M?

I know that M is maximal and so no ideal in R can contain M. We also know that M \subseteq rad \ M

Thus either rad M = M (the conclusion D&F use) or rad M = R?

How do we know that rad \ M \ne R?

Would appreciate some help.

Peter
 

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Try to use contradiction. Assume that ##\textrm{rad}(M) = R##. Then ##1\in \text{rm}(M)##. Now use the definition of the radical.
 
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Thanks R136a1!

But just thinking over this ...

Is the following thinking along the right track ...?

rad \ M = \{a \in R \ | \ a^k \in M for some k \ge 1

So then 1 \in rad \ M \Longrightarrow 1^k \in M for some k \ge 1

\Longrightarrow \ 1 \in M

\Longrightarrow \ M = R

Thus would mean M^n = R so Q = R also ...

This result is not a contradiction but it leads to the collapse of the conditions of the Proposition to triviality ...

Can you confirm my reasoning ... or indeed point out errors/inadequacies in my thinking

Peter
 
Just thinking further ... maybe in my reasoning in the last post I have indeed achieved a contradiction since my reasoning (if correct!) establishes that M = R .,,, where of course M is a maximal ideal by assumption ... but by D&F's definition of a maximal ideal, this is not possible ... so contradiction!

Can someone confirm that this is correct?

Note: Definition of maximal ideal, Dummit and Foote, page 253:

"An ideal M in an arbitrary ring R is called a maximal ideal if M \ne R and the only ideals containing M are M and R."
 
Yes, it is a contradiction because ##M=R## is not possible by definition.
 

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