Problem with the theories about the Sun and the planets

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around two main questions regarding the nature of planets in relation to the Sun and the effects of proximity to the Sun on Earth. Participants explore the differences between planets and the Sun, the implications of moving Earth closer to the Sun, and the conditions that prevent planets like Mercury and Venus from "exploding." The scope includes cosmological concepts and planetary formation theories.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that planets have never been parts of the Sun, noting that while they originated from the same gas cloud, their formation processes differ significantly.
  • It is proposed that planets do not shine like the Sun because they lack the necessary mass and conditions for nuclear fusion, which powers the Sun.
  • One participant mentions that Jupiter emits some light due to energy from its slow collapse, but this is not comparable to the Sun's brightness.
  • Concerns are raised about the hypothetical scenario of Earth moving closer to the Sun, with one participant suggesting that this would lead to catastrophic melting of ice caps and potential explosion due to heat.
  • Another participant counters that the Earth's distance from the Sun varies significantly throughout the year without causing drastic temperature changes, suggesting that a 1 million mile shift would not have the predicted catastrophic effects.
  • It is noted that even if ice caps melted, the rise in sea levels would not be sufficient to swallow continents, and most land would remain above sea level.
  • Some participants challenge the idea of planets exploding, questioning the reasoning behind such a claim and suggesting that the experiences of Mercury and Venus contradict this notion.
  • Differences between inner and outer planets are highlighted, with a suggestion that the inner planets lost much of their hydrogen during the Sun's ignition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of planets and the effects of proximity to the Sun. There is no consensus on the implications of moving Earth closer to the Sun or the validity of the explosion hypothesis.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the Earth's orbit is not circular, leading to variations in distance from the Sun that do not significantly impact temperature. The discussion also reflects differing interpretations of planetary formation and the conditions necessary for planets to emit light.

scogos.com
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I am not an astronomer or astrophysicist but lately, I have been reading a lot of books to upgrade my knowledge in cosmology.

I have encountered two issues that I am baffled about and wonder if anyone can help me throw some light on them

(1) If the planets are parts of the sun or came from the sun, why are the planets so different from the sun? Why are the planets not shining like the sun?

(2) My idea is that if the Earth were to move about 1 million miles closer to the Sun, not only would all the ice in the northern and southern poles melt and flood the whole planet and swallow up all the continents, but I also believe the Earth would explode from the heat.

If this could happen to earth, why is it that Mercury and Venus are so near to the Sun and yet they have not exploded?

I would appreciate any explanation about these two issues.

Thanks
Scogos
 
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scogos.com said:
(1) If the planets are parts of the sun or came from the sun, why are the planets so different from the sun? Why are the planets not shining like the sun?

The planets have never been parts of the sun. It is true that the stuff that makes up planets and the sun came from the same cloud of gas, but the processes by which they formed were quite different. As for the reason that the planets don't shine, it has to do with their composition and central temperatures. The sun is powered by nuclear fusion, a process that requires temperatures and densities high enough to cause nuclei to merge. The planets aren't massive enough to keep these conditions in their core.

On a side note, Jupiter is actually shining, but not brightly enough to be noticable over the sun's reflected light. It's not powered by nuclear fusion, but rather by the energy released in its slow collapse.
(2) My idea is that if the Earth were to move about 1 million miles closer to the Sun, not only would all the ice in the northern and southern poles melt and flood the whole planet and swallow up all the continents, but I also believe the Earth would explode from the heat.

If this could happen to earth, why is it that Mercury and Venus are so near to the Sun and yet they have not exploded?

Although the ice caps would melt, the Earth would not explode if brought to Mercury's distance.
 
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scogos.com said:
(2) My idea is that if the Earth were to move about 1 million miles closer to the Sun, not only would all the ice in the northern and southern poles melt and flood the whole planet and swallow up all the continents, but I also believe the Earth would explode from the heat.


Thanks
Scogos

For one thing, since the Earth's orbit aorund the Sun is not a perfect circle, it already does not keep a constant distance from the Sun. In fact, it varies by 3,000,000 miles; The Earth is 3,000,000 miles closer to the Sun in January than it is in July. You will notice that the Earth is actually closer to the Sun when it is summer in the Northern hemisphere than when it is summer. Since a three million mile variation causes very little actual change in temperature on the Earth, it is safe to say that you are over estimating how much change in temperature a 1 million mile difference will make.

Second, even if the ice caps melted, the continents would not be swallowed up, the oceans would only rise a few hundred meters. Coastal areas would be flooded, but the vasrt majority of the land mass would remain above sea level.
 
Janus said:
For one thing, since the Earth's orbit aorund the Sun is not a perfect circle, it already does not keep a constant distance from the Sun. In fact, it varies by 3,000,000 miles; The Earth is 3,000,000 miles closer to the Sun in January than it is in July.

Good catch, I skimmed past the numbers. Janus is quite right, a change that small wouldn't even have a large impact on climate, though moving Earth to Mercury or Venus' distance certainly would.

And I just realized this isn't cosmology...let's move it to general astro.
 
scogos.com said:
(2) My idea is that if the Earth were to move about 1 million miles closer to the Sun, not only would all the ice in the northern and southern poles melt and flood the whole planet and swallow up all the continents, but I also believe the Earth would explode from the heat.

If this could happen to earth, why is it that Mercury and Venus are so near to the Sun and yet they have not exploded?
You just debunked your own idea! Besides what Janus said, if the that didn't happen to the other inner planets, then the reason why is that your idea isn't right.

Think about it this way: why, exactly, would a planet explode?
(1) If the planets are parts of the sun or came from the sun, why are the planets so different from the sun? Why are the planets not shining like the sun?
You may have noticed that the inner and outer planets are quite different from each other. The outer planets are mostly hydrogen, not unlike the sun. The inner planets likely started forming with a lot of hydrogen around them, but it got lost when the sun ignited.
 
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