Prove by Induction (Cardinality)

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    Cardinality Induction
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the cardinality of the Cartesian product of two finite sets, specifically showing that |S1 x S2| = |S1||S2| using mathematical induction. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and induction techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes to prove the statement by induction, starting with the base case where |S1| = 1 and |S2| = 1.
  • Another participant points out that the initial attempt does not adequately demonstrate the induction step and emphasizes the need to use the definition of the Cartesian product.
  • A later reply clarifies the induction step by defining S1' and showing how to express |S1' x S2| in terms of |S1 x S2|, applying the induction hypothesis.
  • One participant expresses understanding after realizing the importance of the Cartesian product definition.
  • Another participant questions whether induction on the cardinality of S2 is also necessary for the proof to be complete.
  • One participant argues that the proof is complete by holding one cardinality constant while inducting on the other, invoking the principle of "without loss of generality."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the proof is complete, with some suggesting that induction on both cardinalities may be required, while others believe the current approach suffices.

Contextual Notes

There is an assumption that the proof can be completed by focusing on one set's cardinality while treating the other as constant, but this approach may depend on specific definitions and interpretations of the problem.

sessomw5098
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If S1 and S2 are finite sets, show that |S1 x S2| = |S1||S2|.


Here is what I've tried:

Let |S1| = m and |S2| = n.
Let P(k) be true. That is, P(k) = |S1 x S2| = km.

P(1) is true since, if |S1| = 1 and |S2| = 1, |S1 x S2| = 1.

Now, let |S1| = k+1 and |S2| = m. Then, P(k+1) = |S1 x S2| = (k+1)m ??

This is as far as I have gotten.
 
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sessomw5098 said:
Let P(k) be true. (...)
Now, let |S1| = k+1 and |S2| = m. Then, P(k+1) = |S1 x S2| = (k+1)m ??
This is as far as I have gotten.
Well, you just wrote down the thing you want to prove, so you haven't really done anything :P

Somewhere you're going to have to use the definition of the cartesian product. We assume P(k) to be true, so for |S1|=k we have |S1 x S2|=km. Now we want to show that for |S1'|=k+1 we have |S1' x S2|=(k+1)m. Write S_1'=S_1 \cup \{x\}, where x is some element not in S1.

By definition, S_1'\times S_2=\{(a,b)|a\in S_1',b\in S_2\}.

But this is equal to \{(a,b)|a\in S_1,b\in S_2\}\ \cup\ \{(x,b)|b\in S_2\}=(S_1\times S_2)\ \cup\ \{(x,b)|b\in S_2\}, where the union is disjoint. Therefore,

|S_1'\times S_2|=|S_1\times S_2|+|\{(x,b)|b\in S_2\}|=km+m=(k+1)m, where we have applied the induction hypothesis |S_1 \times S_2|=km.

Do you understand this? Are we finished with the induction proof?
 
I understand it now. My problem was that I wasn't using the definition of the Cartesian product.

Thanks!
 
You're welcome. You have used induction on the cardinality of S1. Do you also need to use induction on the cardinality of S2? In other words, do you think the proof is finished now?
 
Well, I think the proof is complete because we hold one constant while "inducting" the other. We can assume the converse is true due to "without loss of generality."

Am I right?
 

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