Prove that the roots of a polynomial cannot be all real

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the roots of the polynomial ##f(x)=x^6+ax^3+bx^2+cx+d## cannot all be real, with a focus on theoretical reasoning and mathematical proofs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that demonstrating the existence of a complex root would suffice, referencing the fundamental theorem of algebra.
  • Another participant challenges this by stating that it must be shown that a complex root exists for every choice of coefficients a, b, c, and d.
  • A hint is provided indicating that if a real polynomial has n real roots, its derivative must have at least n-1 real roots.
  • Further hints reference Descartes' rule of signs and the implications of the polynomial's derivatives, suggesting that if all roots were real, certain conditions would lead to contradictions.
  • A remark discusses the educational context of the concepts involved, noting that some methods may not be commonly taught in high school, despite their relevance to understanding polynomials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the approach to proving the statement, with no consensus on a definitive method or solution. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the proof itself.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the problem and the potential limitations of their approaches, including the need for specific conditions on the coefficients.

anemone
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Let ##a,\,b,\,c## and ##d## be any four real numbers but not all equal to zero.

Prove that the roots of the polynomial ##f(x)=x^6+ax^3+bx^2+cx+d## cannot all be real.
 
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Since I don't know how to solve something like this, would it be valid to show that there is a complex root? Since the fundamental theorem of algebra states that for an n-th degree polynomial, there are n solutions (real or complex), thus if one of those roots are complex, by the nature of the question, not all roots can be real.
 
That would be ok if you could show there is a complex root for every choice of a,b,c,d.
 
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Solution:
We have x_1^2 + \dots + x_6^2 = I_1^2 - 2I_2 where the elementary symmetric polynomials I_1 = x_1 + \dots + x_6 and I_2 = x_1x_2 + x_1x_3 + \dots + x_5x_6.

If x_1, \dots, x_6 are the roots of x^6 + ax^3 + bx^2 + cx + d then I_1 is minus the coefficient of x^5 and I_2 is the coefficient of x^4, both of which are zero. Thus <br /> x_1^2 + \dots + x_6^2 = 0. Now if the roots are all real they are all zero, which contradicts the requirement that at least one of a, b, c, d is non-zero.
 
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hint #1: cogito, ergo sum.

hint #2: If a real polynomial has n real roots, then its derivative has ≥ n-1 real roots.

.......

[SPOILER #1: Descartes rule of signs implies at most 4 real roots.]

[SPOILER #2: Assume a ≠0. If there are 6 real roots then the 3rd derivative has ≥ 3 real roots, but it has form 120x^3 + 6a = 0, where a ≠ 0. The other cases are similar or easier. The hint follows from the product rule for derivatives and Rolle's theorem, and if all roots are distinct, it's obvious from looking at the graph, i.e. just Rolle suffices.]

Remark: As to the likelihood of a high schooler solving this, I believe the Descartes rule of signs was traditionally taught in high school even decades ago, and of course many now teach derivatives and graphing. Ironically, the most elementary approach, via symmetric functions used by pasmith, may not be taught much in high schools. I think I did not learn it there, but when I finally did learn it while studying field theory in college, it made polynomials seem so much more understandable that I wondered why it was not taught earlier. Of course an intelligent and curious student could easily discover it on her own.
 
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pasmith said:
Solution:
We have x_1^2 + \dots + x_6^2 = I_1^2 - 2I_2 where the elementary symmetric polynomials I_1 = x_1 + \dots + x_6 and I_2 = x_1x_2 + x_1x_3 + \dots + x_5x_6.

If x_1, \dots, x_6 are the roots of x^6 + ax^3 + bx^2 + cx + d then I_1 is minus the coefficient of x^5 and I_2 is the coefficient of x^4, both of which are zero. Thus <br /> x_1^2 + \dots + x_6^2 = 0. Now if the roots are all real they are all zero, which contradicts the requirement that at least one of a, b, c, d is non-zero.
Very clever solution!
 
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