Proving a=a: Using Natural Deduction to Show Equality in Set Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the statement a=a using natural deduction within the framework of set theory. Participants explore the implications of this proof, the definitions of equality, and the foundational concepts of set membership and equivalence relations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant claims to prove a=a using natural deduction and the axiom of extension in set theory, suggesting that equality is derived from set membership.
  • Another participant challenges this proof by noting the existence of multiple definitions of equality and questioning the applicability of the proof in different contexts, such as strings of characters.
  • A third participant clarifies that they are using set theory as the basis for their proof and asserts that the axiom of extension defines equality clearly.
  • A fourth participant points out a potential flaw in the reasoning, suggesting that the proof assumes a=a as a premise, which may not be valid without justification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the proof and the definitions of equality, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the definitions of equality and the reliance on equivalence relations in the context of set theory and propositional logic.

quantum123
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Today while day dreaming I discovered something interesting. I can prove a=a.
Here's how:

You can prove P=>P using natural deduction rules.(=> Intro)
So you can prove that x is an element of a => x is an element of a
Hence a is subset of a, and vice versa.
By ZFC axiom of extension, a=a

So a=a need not be an axiom, because it can be proven. In this sense, equality is not the fundamental concept. Set membership is.
 
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quantum123 said:
Today while day dreaming I discovered something interesting. I can prove a=a.

Unfortunately there are several different defintiions of "=". It appears that what you did was prove that the set consisting of only the element 'a' is equal to the set consisting of only the element 'a'. This doesn't help in other contexts. (For example {a,a} = {a} as sets but not as strings of characters. It also isn't clear whether you are relying on those other contexts in your proof. You'd have to check that the concept of "equvalence relation" isn't used in developing he set theory and propositional logic that you cited.
 
I am using only set theory as the basis.
I did not mention the set consisting of a, but rather a is an arbitrary set. The axiom of extension in set theory does in fact tell you what = means, unequivocally.
 
Sorry Q, but you've only stated half of the equivalence, the other half does not follow..., unless you us a=a, that is, you have assumed the consequent.
 

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