Proving an or statement in mathematical proofs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the methods for proving statements of the form "A implies B or C" in mathematical proofs. Participants explore various approaches, including case analysis and contradiction, while considering the implications of each method.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that one common method is to assume A and split into cases, proving A implies B and A implies C separately.
  • Others argue that it is also common to assume A and one of B or C is false, then prove that A implies the other statement.
  • A participant mentions that both approaches are valid and that the choice of method depends on the specific problem at hand.
  • Another participant clarifies that using the first approach would lead to proving A implies both B and C, rather than A implies B or C.
  • There is a discussion about the introduction of variables P and Q to clarify the argument structure, with some participants questioning their origin.
  • A participant provides an example involving integers and modular arithmetic to illustrate their understanding of the case analysis approach, emphasizing that it does not lead to proving both B and C simultaneously.
  • Some participants express differing interpretations of the original argument, suggesting a need for clarification from the initial poster.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method for proving "A implies B or C." Multiple competing views remain regarding the validity and implications of the different approaches discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the effectiveness of each proof method may depend on the specific context and assumptions involved, but these factors remain unresolved in the discussion.

altcmdesc
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Proving an "or" statement

What is the general procedure when proving a statement like "A implies B or C"? Is it more common to assume A and then split into cases (i.e. case 1: A implies B, case 2: A implies C, therefore A implies B or C)? Or is it more common to assume A and that one of B or C is false and then prove that A implies C or B (depending on which is assumed false)?
 
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Is it more common to assume A and then split into cases (i.e. case 1: A implies B, case 2: A implies C, therefore A implies B or C)? Or is it more common to assume A and that one of B or C is false and then prove that A implies C or B (depending on which is assumed false)?
Both are common. In my experience the most common is your second approach, i.e. assume A is true and B is false, and then conclude that C is true (interchange B and C if you want to). It's not uncommon either to do contradiction and assume A is true, B is false, C is false and then reach a contradiction, or possibly contraposition where you assume B and C are false and then conclude A is false. Really the approach to use depends on the problem and there is no best general way.
 


If you did it the first way, you would have proven A implies B *and* C.
 


Dragonfall said:
If you did it the first way, you would have proven A implies B *and* C.

I took his statement to mean:
Assume A
Show that either P or Q is true.
Case 1: Assume P is true. ... then B is true.
Case 2: Assume Q is true. ... then C is true.

which is valid.
 


Where did P and Q come from?
 


Dragonfall said:
Where did P and Q come from?

I introduced them to make the point more easily. When he wrote:
Case 1: A implies B
Case 2: A implies C
I'm reading it as a way of writing that in one case which I call P we prove that A implies B (we don't assume it), and in another case which I called Q we prove that A implies C. That is the only way I see for the argument to make sense.
 


No, you still get A -> (B /\ C) with that approach.
 


Dragonfall said:
No, you still get A -> (B /\ C) with that approach.

You must misunderstand me because I'm pretty sure my argument form is correct (whether altcmdesc meant it or not). For instance let:
A be "n is an integer square m^2".
B be "n \equiv 0 \pmod 3".
C be "n \equiv 1 \pmod 3"
Then:
Assume n=m^2 for some integer m.
Case 1 (m \equiv 1 \pmod 3 or m \equiv 2 \pmod 3): Then n=m^2 \equiv 1 \pmod 3 which proves C in this case.
Case 2 (m \equiv 0 \pmod 3): Then n=m^2 \equiv 0 \pmod 3 which proves B in this case.

This doesn't prove that every square is congruent to 0 AND 1 modulo 3, simply to one of them.

Here the conditions in parentheses are what I called P and Q and I think altcmdesc simply omitted them for simplicity. I think we're just understanding altcmdesc in different ways, so I guess we have to wait for him to clear up exactly what he meant.
 

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