Proving Pigeonhole Principle in Set Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a specific application of the Pigeonhole Principle in set theory, particularly in the context of divisibility among elements of a subset of natural numbers. Participants explore various approaches to demonstrate that within a subset P of a defined set U, there exist elements that are divisible by one another.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a set U defined as {1, 2, 3, ..., n, ..., 2n} and seeks to show that in any subset P of size n + 1, there exist elements x and y such that x divides y or y divides x.
  • Another participant identifies the odd elements of U as pigeonholes and suggests that each element of P can be expressed in terms of its odd component, implying that at least one odd element must be shared among the elements of P.
  • A different participant proposes splitting U into even and odd subsets and argues that if P contains at least one even number, it must lead to a situation where either x divides y or y divides x, depending on the choice of even numbers.
  • One participant critiques the complexity of the previous approach, emphasizing that the key insight is that at least two elements in P must be multiples of the same odd element, which directly relates to their divisibility.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the complexity of the proof and the methods to approach the problem. While some agree on the foundational use of the Pigeonhole Principle, there is no consensus on the best method to demonstrate the divisibility condition.

Contextual Notes

Participants' arguments rely on various assumptions about the properties of even and odd numbers, as well as the implications of the Pigeonhole Principle. Some steps in the reasoning remain unresolved, particularly regarding the handling of cases and the implications of chosen subsets.

houseurmusic
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Been working on this for 2 days and have gotten no where. Maybe someone out there can show me the light

U = {1, 2, 3, ... , n, ..., 2n} for some natural number n
Let P be a subset of U such that |P| = n + 1
show that there exists x, y in P where x not equal y such that x divides y or y divides x.
 
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This one's a classic, and it's not obvious. Notice that:

(1) U has n odd elements; these will be the pigeonholes.

(2) The pigeons will be the elements of P.

(3) Each "pigeon" [tex]k \in P[/tex] may be written as [tex]k = 2^{e}m[/tex], where m is odd.

Now, there will be a pigeonhole, with at least how many pigeons?
 
That was helpful, thank you.

The way I approached the problem and I am not sure if this is correct...

I split U into 2 subsets. An even subset and an odd subset.
I said that set P must contain at least 1 element from the even set by the pigeon hole principle. I also used these to facts which are easy to prove

-1- For any even number x and some odd number y. x=(2^C)(y) C is a natural number > 1
-2- If there is an even number x that shares the same odd multiple (excluding 1) as another even number y then x|y (x divides y) or y|x.

When choosing the even number(s) for set P we can make these 2 choices:

case 1: We choose an even number x that shares no odd multiple with another even number we have chosen before.

case 2: The even number x shares the same odd multiple as another even number y which we have already chosen from before.

Note that after we are done choosing set P if P contains 1 then we are done.

If we ever choose a x that falls under case 2 we are done by -2- of our above facts.

(This is where I it gets a little messy)

Then all that is left to consider is if all our choices of even number(s) fall under case 1.
By fact -1- any even number x is multiple of an odd number y(excluding 1). In other words our set P would have to have a one to one correspondence of odd to even numbers. But that's impossible because we have must have 1 more odd numbers then even numbers or vice versa.
So P must contain a x and a y such that x|y or y|x which was to be shown. QED

That look right?
 
You are overcomplicating: notice that, after you have defined the set of "holes" as the one who has the odd elements of U and the the "pigeons" has your set P, then there will be at least two of them who are multiples of the same odd element. What does this tells you about their divisibility?
 

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