Proving that a subgroup is normal

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of subgroups, specifically addressing why a subgroup of index 2 is normal. Participants explore definitions, implications of cosets, and the relationship between the subgroup and the group itself.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why there can only be two cosets, ##A## and ##gA##, for a subgroup of index 2, suggesting the need for clarification on this point.
  • Others assert that the index is defined as the number of cosets, which leads to discussions about the implications of this definition.
  • One participant notes that the neutral element ##e## must be in the subgroup ##A##, leading to the conclusion that one coset is ##A## and the other must be ##gA## to satisfy the index condition.
  • Another participant elaborates that for the union of the cosets to equal the group, it must hold that ##gA = Ag##, which implies that the subgroup is normal.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition of index and the implications of coset structure, indicating that multiple competing views remain and the discussion is not fully resolved.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific definitions of index and cosets, which may not be universally agreed upon. The discussion also touches on the implications of subgroup properties without reaching a consensus on all points.

kent davidge
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In this PDF, http://www.math.unl.edu/~bharbourne1/M417Spr04/M417Exam2Solns.pdf,

in answering why a subgroup of index 2 is normal, the author says that the only two cosets must be ##A## and ##gA##. Why so? Why there can't be another element ##g'## such that ##G = g' A + g A##?
 
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kent davidge said:
In this PDF, http://www.math.unl.edu/~bharbourne1/M417Spr04/M417Exam2Solns.pdf,

in answering why a subgroup of index 2 is normal, the author says that the only two cosets must be ##A## and ##gA##. Why so? Why there can't be another element ##g'## such that ##G = g' A + g A##?
How do you define index? I thought it was the number of cosets.
 
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why is this in topology and analysis?
 
mathwonk said:
why is this in topology and analysis?
Thanks. Moved.
 
WWGD said:
How do you define index? I thought it was the number of cosets.
According to my book, it is indeed the number of cosets which defines the index.
 
kent davidge said:
According to my book, it is indeed the number of cosets which defines the index.
Yes, and in which coset is the neutral element ##e \in G\,##?
 
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fresh_42 said:
Yes, and in which coset is the neutral element ##e \in G\,##?
ohh you made me realize now what the thing is.

One coset must be ##A## because the neutral ##e## should be in ##G##, and it is in ##A##, because ##A## is a subgroup, (not in ##gA##, because ##gA = (g e, ga_1, ...) = (g, ga_1, ...)##). So one coset being ##A##, the only other possible coset is ##gA## so that the index 2 condition is satisfied.
 
kent davidge said:
ohh you made me realize now what the thing is.

One coset must be ##A## because the neutral ##e## should be in ##G##, and it is in ##A##, because ##A## is a subgroup, (not in ##gA##, because ##gA = (g e, ga_1, ...) = (g, ga_1, ...)##). So one coset being ##A##, the only other possible coset is ##gA## so that the index 2 condition is satisfied.
Yes, and therefore we have ##G=A \cup gA=A \cup Ag## at the same time and on the level of sets. But this can only be if ##gA=Ag## which means ##A## is normal.
 
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