Proving that f(x) is Not Continuous for All Real Numbers c

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the continuity of various piecewise functions, particularly focusing on proving that certain functions are not continuous for all real numbers. Participants explore the application of the epsilon-delta definition of continuity, specifically at the point x=0 and for other values of c.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the function f(x) = 1 if x is rational and f(x) = 0 if x is irrational is not continuous for all real numbers.
  • Others propose that the function f(x) = x if x is rational and f(x) = 0 if x is irrational is continuous at x=0 but not continuous for other real numbers.
  • Another viewpoint suggests that the function f(x) = 1/q if x is rational (where x = p/q in lowest terms) and f(x) = 0 if x is irrational is continuous at c if c is irrational and not continuous at c if c is rational.
  • Participants discuss the use of the epsilon-delta method to prove continuity at x=0 and express uncertainty about proving discontinuity at other values.
  • There is mention of the density property of real numbers and how it relates to the continuity of these functions, indicating that between any two real numbers, there exist both rational and irrational numbers.
  • One participant questions how to express the epsilon-delta condition for proving discontinuity, noting that if the function is not continuous, there may not be a delta that satisfies the condition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the continuity of certain functions at specific points but express differing views on the continuity of these functions at other points. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the application of the epsilon-delta method for proving discontinuity.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the epsilon-delta method and the implications of the density property of real numbers on continuity proofs. There are unresolved mathematical steps in the discussion.

phyguy321
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the function f(x) = 1 if x is rational
f(x) = 0 if x is irrational is not continuous for all real numbers, c



the function f(x) = x if x is rational
f(x) = 0 if x is irrationa is continuous at x=0 and not continuous for all other real numbers c

the function f(x) = 1/q if x is rational and x = p/q in lowest terms
f(x) = 0 if x is irrational
is continuous at c if c is irrational and not continuous at c if c is rational

I'm terrible at proofs, please help!
 
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Hi phyguy321;! :smile:

(have an epsilon: ε and a delta: δ :smile:)

Let's start with:
phyguy321 said:
the function f(x) = x if x is rational
f(x) = 0 if x is irrationa is continuous at x=0 and not continuous for all other real numbers c

Can you use an ε and δ method to prove that it is continuous at x = 0?

Have a go. :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi phyguy321;! :smile:

(have an epsilon: ε and a delta: δ :smile:)

Let's start with:


Can you use an ε and δ method to prove that it is continuous at x = 0?

Have a go. :smile:


I've got the proof for when f(x) is continuous at x=0 but I'm not sure how to prove that its discontinuous at every other value using delta epsilon. I understand it has to do with the density property of real numbers and that its full of holes be cause between every real number there exists rational and irrational numbers.
 

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phyguy321 said:
I've got the proof for when f(x) is continuous at x=0 but I'm not sure how to prove that its discontinuous at every other value using delta epsilon. I understand it has to do with the density property of real numbers and that its full of holes be cause between every real number there exists rational and irrational numbers.

Hi phyguy321! :smile:

Same method … start "if x ≠ 0, then for any ε < x, … " :wink:
 
but how do i say if |x-c|<delta then |f(x) - f(not zero)|< epsilon?
 
phyguy321 said:
but how do i say if |x-c|<delta then |f(x) - f(not zero)|< epsilon?

But it's not continuous, so there isn't a δ.

You should be trying to prove that, no matter how small δ is, the neighbourhood will contain values that further away than ε. :smile:
 

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