Proving that x=2^x can't happen for real x?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether the equation x=2^x can have real solutions. Participants explore various approaches to prove or disprove the existence of such solutions without using series expansion, focusing on mathematical reasoning and properties of the functions involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that if a solution exists, x cannot be negative, as 2^x is positive for real x.
  • It is noted that at x=0, 2^x equals 1, which raises questions about the behavior of the functions as x increases.
  • One participant argues that for x to equal 2^x, the slope of the function f(x)=x must be greater than the slope of g(x)=2^x before any intersection occurs.
  • Another participant proposes taking the derivative of the function 2^x - x to show that it is strictly increasing on [0, ∞), implying it cannot equal zero in that interval.
  • However, a disagreement arises regarding the behavior of the derivative at x=0, with one participant claiming it is negative, leading to a retraction of their earlier claim.
  • A later post introduces a related question about finding the largest value of "a" for which the equation a^x = x has a real solution, suggesting a potential exercise for calculus students.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the behavior of the functions and their derivatives, leading to no consensus on the existence of solutions to the equation x=2^x. The discussion remains unresolved with competing arguments presented.

Contextual Notes

Some mathematical steps and assumptions are not fully resolved, particularly regarding the behavior of derivatives and the implications for the existence of solutions. The discussion also highlights the need for careful consideration of function properties over specified intervals.

Dragonfall
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Is there a simple way of proving that x=2^x can't happen for real x? Without series expansion.
 
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Sure!

1. Note that if there were a solution, x cannot be negative, since the right-hand side is positve.

2. Note that at x=0, we have 2^x=1.

3. In order for "x" then, to become equal, (or greater) to 2^x, the slope of the function f(x)=x must be greater than the slope of the function g(x)=2^x prior to the x that makes f=g

4. Now, the slope of f is equal to 1, for g, it equals 2^xln(2)>0

5. Now, we see that g is strictly increasing.
IF the graph of f is to intersect somewhere with the graph of g, then the point at which g has equal slope as f must either be a point of intersection, OR IN A REGION IN WHICH f is greater than g!
(Since the graph of g will eventually undertake the graph of f, and if the point where g's slope is equal to f's slope is prior to f's intersection with g, then f will NEVER intersect with g)

6. Thus, we find that when g's slope equals f's slope, this happens at X=ln(1/ln(2))

7. At that point, we have f(X)=ln(1/ln(2)), whereas g(X)=(1/ln(2))^ln(2)

8 Since g(X)>f(X) we may conclude that g is always greater than f.
 


Much simpler is to write 2^x - x = 0, and take the derivative of LHS: ln(2)2^x - 1. On [0, ∞), this is clearly strictly positive, so the function 2^x - x is strictly increasing on that interval. At x = 0, 2^x - x = 1, so it never attains 0 on [0, ∞) (it only gets larger than 1). It also can never attain 0 on (-∞, 0), so there is no solution.
 


Werg22 said:
Much simpler is to write 2^x - x = 0, and take the derivative of LHS: ln(2)2^x - 1. On [0, ∞), this is clearly strictly positive,
Most definitely not!

At x=0, for example, ln(2)-1 is negative. :smile:
 


Ah, then I retract my solution.
 


Ah, thanks for the replies!
 


This question could be turned into a nice little exercise for introductory calculus.

Q. Find the largest value of "a" for which the equation, a^x = x has a real solution? It has a fairly cute solution.

a = e^(1/e), with the solution occurring at x = e.
 

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