Proving the Limit of a Sequence is Unique: Real Analysis Class

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of the uniqueness of the limit of a sequence in a real analysis context. Participants explore the intuition behind the proof, the choice of epsilon in the argument, and the challenges faced by students in understanding these concepts. The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical proof techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the proof of the uniqueness of limits, particularly regarding the choice of epsilon and the reasoning behind it.
  • Another participant argues against relying on external sources for understanding proofs, suggesting that it can hinder the development of intuition.
  • A different participant provides a detailed explanation of the proof, emphasizing the importance of choosing epsilon appropriately and the reasoning behind the steps taken.
  • Some participants note that the choice of epsilon as |L-M|/2 is not necessary and complicates the proof, suggesting that simpler approaches exist.
  • One participant reflects on their learning process and acknowledges the need to develop their own problem-solving skills without external assistance.
  • Another participant mentions that recognizing patterns in proofs can help students become more comfortable with mathematical reasoning over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to understanding the proof. There are differing opinions on the utility of external resources and the necessity of certain choices in the proof process.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the importance of intuition in mathematical proofs and the potential pitfalls of relying too heavily on external sources for understanding. There is also mention of the complexity introduced by certain choices in the proof, which may not be immediately intuitive.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students in real analysis or those interested in understanding the nuances of mathematical proofs, particularly regarding limits and epsilon-delta arguments.

B3NR4Y
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I'm in a real analysis class, and I love the material. But something that is coming up in homeworks worries me about my future math career, I find myself being tasked with proving things and using the internet to help me, finding the answer and completely understanding it, but that's not the problem. I have no clue where they got that from. It seems arbitrary when they pull some of this stuff out. For example:

I was told to prove the limit of a sequence is unique. I correctly started by assuming it isn't, which implies (by the definition of a sequence) xn→L means ∀ε>0 ∃N∈ℕ such that n≥N ⇒ | xn- L | < ε
xn→M means ∀ε>0 ∃O∈ℕ such that n≥O ⇒ | xn- M | < ε

The first thing they did was let n = max {N,O}. I understand why, the interesting stuff in the definitions happens when n ≥ N or O, so taking the max of these two ensures the interesting stuff is happening. But I don't think I could have come up with that myself. I'd like to believe i would, but I honestly don't know if I would. Since n is greater than or equal to N or O, both | xn-L | < ε and | xn-M | < ε are true, and I'm okay with this (it just comes from the definition), using the triangle inequality we can see that
| L - M | (which should be zero) ≤ | xn - L | + | xn - M | < 2ε
Now here's another part that messes me up, they chose \epsilon = \frac{| L - M |}{2} at the very beginning of the proof! Which seemed arbitrary to me, so I ignored it until the end and this came up. I realized why they did that because it said | L - M | < | L - M |, which is a contradiction! Therefore the ε we chose has to equal zero, which is only possible if | L - M | = 0, therefore proving L = M. But how did they have such incredible foresight to see that \epsilon = \frac{| L - M |}{2} at the very beginning? Just experience or is everyone in math a genius and I should just stick with physics (I'm dual majoring)?
 
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Absolutely, absolutely stop looking up things from the internet. It will not help you at all. And the questions you ask here are typical from those who look up the proofs and don't find it themselves.

Nobody has had the forsight to see that ##\varepsilon = |L-M|/2##. In a proof, a choice of ##\varepsilon## happens in the beginning. But when finding a proof yourself, the right choice of ##\varepsilon## happens at the very end! This is why reading a proof without trying it yourself can be harmful, because it does not give you any idea where things came from.
 
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Since you don't quite get the intuition behind how the proof came about (yet!), here's the train of thought that might lead you to a similar solution:

We want to show that if x_n\to L and x_n\to M, then L=M. So, we look at the difference |L-M|. To estimate this difference, we notice that L and M are "close" to x_n for large n. Since both |L-x_n| and |M-x_n| are small for large n, it makes sense to use the estimate |L-M|=|L-x_n+(x_n-M)|\leq |L-x_n|+|M-x_n|. Suppose that we want to make the RHS smaller than some arbitrary positive number \varepsilon. The easiest way to do this is to force both |L-x_n| and |M-x_n| to be smaller than \varepsilon/2. Since we can find natural numbers N_1,N_2 (side note: don't name your bound "O" in this circumstance) such that |L-x_n|&lt;\varepsilon/2 for n\geq N_1 and |M-x_n|&lt;\varepsilon/2 for n\geq N_2. With this in mind, |L-M|\leq |L-x_n|+|M-x_n|&lt;\varepsilon/2+\varepsilon/2=\varepsilon. Since |L-M| is nonnegative and smaller than any positive real number it must be zero.

This condenses into the following proof:

Let \varepsilon be an arbitrary positive real number. Since x_n\to L and x_n\to M, there exist natural numbers N_1,N_2 such that |x_n-L|&lt;\varepsilon/2 for n\geq N_1 and |x_n-M|&lt;\varepsilon/2 for n\geq N_2. Fix a natural number k\geq \max (N_1,N_2). Then, |L-M|\leq |L-x_k|+|M-x_k|&lt;\varepsilon/2+\varepsilon/2=\varepsilon. Since |L-M|&lt;\varepsilon for any \varepsilon&gt;0, we conclude that |L-M|=0 and hence L=M.

Note that the nicety with choosing \varepsilon=\frac{|L-M|}{2} is unnecessary and, indeed, makes the proof more complicated because it forces you into doing a proof by contradiction where such a choice of \varepsilon is positive.

Hope this helps!
 
Infrared said:
Since you don't quite get the intuition behind how the proof came about (yet!), here's the train of thought that might lead you to a similar solution:

We want to show that if x_n\to L and x_n\to M, then L=M. So, we look at the difference |L-M|. To estimate this difference, we notice that L and M are "close" to x_n for large n. Since both |L-x_n| and |M-x_n| are small for large n, it makes sense to use the estimate |L-M|=|L-x_n+(x_n-M)|\leq |L-x_n|+|M-x_n|. Suppose that we want to make the RHS smaller than some arbitrary positive number \varepsilon. The easiest way to do this is to force both |L-x_n| and |M-x_n| to be smaller than \varepsilon/2. Since we can find natural numbers N_1,N_2 (side note: don't name your bound "O" in this circumstance) such that |L-x_n|&lt;\varepsilon/2 for n\geq N_1 and |M-x_n|&lt;\varepsilon/2 for n\geq N_2. With this in mind, |L-M|\leq |L-x_n|+|M-x_n|&lt;\varepsilon/2+\varepsilon/2=\varepsilon. Since |L-M| is nonnegative and smaller than any positive real number it must be zero.

This condenses into the following proof:

Let \varepsilon be an arbitrary positive real number. Since x_n\to L and x_n\to M, there exist natural numbers N_1,N_2 such that |x_n-L|&lt;\varepsilon/2 for n\geq N_1 and |x_n-M|&lt;\varepsilon/2 for n\geq N_2. Fix a natural number k\geq \max (N_1,N_2). Then, |L-M|\leq |L-x_k|+|M-x_k|&lt;\varepsilon/2+\varepsilon/2=\varepsilon. Since |L-M|&lt;\varepsilon for any \varepsilon&gt;0, we conclude that |L-M|=0 and hence L=M.

Note that the nicety with choosing \varepsilon=\frac{|L-M|}{2} is unnecessary and, indeed, makes the proof more complicated because it forces you into doing a proof by contradiction where such a choice of \varepsilon is positive.

Hope this helps!
This does help! I suppose I could have come up with that myself, some things trip me up at first when I'm working the problem, in the heat of the moment, I forget that if the only condition you impose on ε is that it has to be positive, ε/2 is still a number greater than zero and is still greater than what we said it was greater than. I guess my brain has become lazy as a result of me looking up things when I get stuck. I am going to stop doing that now, as per micromass's suggestion.

Thank you!
 
There are some patterns of proof that will come up time after time. Most proofs are derived from those basic patterns. This is one of the basic patterns. Give it some time and you will catch on. It's like cooking. You start with the basic recipe and add spices as needed.
 

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