Quantity of buffer solution needed to resist pH change

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the quantity of buffer solution needed to maintain a pH of 7.0 in a swimming pool when faced with an increase in hydrogen ion concentration. Participants explore various buffer options and their chemical behaviors, particularly focusing on chlorine and sodium carbonate.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to approach the calculation of buffer solution concentration needed to resist pH change due to a specific increase in [H+].
  • Another participant argues that the question is poorly worded and depends on the identity of the buffer, specifically its pKa, and challenges the classification of chlorine as a buffer solution.
  • There is a discussion about chlorine's potential reaction with hydrogen ions, with one participant suggesting it could form hydrochloric acid.
  • Another participant points out that chlorine reacts with water to produce acids, which would lower the pH, contradicting the initial assumption.
  • A participant proposes sodium carbonate as a buffer, suggesting it could increase pH by forming carbonic acid.
  • Concerns are raised about the clarity of the original question, with emphasis on the need for specific details regarding the buffer's behavior and the pH change magnitude.
  • One participant calculates that sodium carbonate would react with hydrogen ions in a 2:1 ratio, but notes that real solutions may not behave as simply as the stoichiometry suggests.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the 2:1 ratio, prompting a suggestion to write the reaction equation for better understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the identity and effectiveness of different buffer solutions, particularly chlorine versus sodium carbonate. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on how to approach the calculation or the appropriateness of the original question.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the original question's clarity, including missing assumptions about buffer identity and the conditions under which pH changes occur. There is also uncertainty regarding the practical application of theoretical calculations in real solutions.

miniradman
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Hello there,

I've got a question here which asks me to calculate how much (in mol/L) of buffer solution to add to 1 litre of solution to resist the change away from a pH of 7.0.

a) if there was an increase of 3.99367 x 10-8 of [H+] ions

Because the question is talking about pH in a swimming pool, I'm going to assmume that the buffer solution is chlorine.

I have no idea how to approach this?

any assitance will be appreciated :smile:
 
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The way it is worded now it doesn't make sense and can't be solved. First of all, answer depends on the buffer identity (more precisely - on the pKa of the acid used), and I don't like the idea of chlorine being called "a buffer solution". Then, when you add acid to the buffered solution pH goes down - always. Magnitude of the change depends on the amount of acid and on the buffer capacity, so as long as you are not told by how much pH can change, you can't give any answer.
 
No :smile:

Well, I just assumed that Chlorine could react with the extra hyrogen ions in solution, by forming hydrochloric acid, thus, lowering the concentration of [H+] ions?
 
If anything, Cl2 reacts with water undergoing disproportionation and producing two acids, so it lowers the pH.
 
Heh... I didn't actually think about that.

How about something like Sodium Carbonate? Na2CO3

The sodiums will ionise in solution and what's left should be Carbonate, which will form Carbonic Acid? will that increase the pH?
 
Now you are just throwing compounds around. Yes, solution of sodium carbonate has pH above 7. Does it change the fact question as stated doesn't make sense?
 
Well I figured that the disociation of carbonic acid was what put in hydrogen ions in solution to begin with (in an earlier part of the same question), I just needed to do the reverse to push the pH back. Plus, Soda Ash is something used in Pools...

What I'm trying to figure out is: How much Sodium Carbonate do I need to neutralize 3.99367 x 10-8 of H+ ions

I know that Carbonic acid is di-protic
and the pka values are
pKa1 = 6.367
pKa2 = 10.329

Although I'm not sure what units they'd be in, and I'm pretty sure this is for the forward reaction
 
miniradman said:
How much Sodium Carbonate do I need to neutralize 3.99367 x 10-8 of H+ ions

Technically you can answer that they react 2:1 so you need 2x10-8M of carbonate. However, it doesn't work this way in the real solution, and the problem is still so vague there is no way to make it solvable.
 
why is it 2:1 ?
 
  • #10
Write reaction equation, the simplest and the most obvious one.
 

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