Quantum Causality: Pauli's Definition Explained

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Maximise24
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Causality Quantum
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Wolfgang Pauli's definition of quantum causality as presented in a 1940 article, specifically addressing the relationship between operator commutativity and causality in quantum mechanics. Participants explore theoretical implications, examples, and interpretations related to spacelike separations and entangled particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about Pauli's definition, questioning how spacelike separation can relate to causality since it excludes causal relationships by definition.
  • One participant provides an example using angular momentum to illustrate that non-commuting observables can influence each other, suggesting that this influence must be avoided to maintain causality.
  • Another participant argues that "quantum causality" does not have limitations based on distance, citing entangled particles as an example where measurement outcomes are correlated despite spacelike separation.
  • Some participants note that the results of measurements on entangled pairs are insensitive to the order of measurement, implying that the measurements must commute, which they believe aligns with Pauli's views.
  • There is a mention that quantum causality does not allow for faster-than-light information transfer, as highlighted by another participant.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of spacelike separation and the nature of quantum causality. While some agree on the non-local correlations in entangled systems, there is no consensus on the interpretation of causality in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of defining "causality" in quantum mechanics and the randomness of quantum interactions, which complicates the discussion of underlying causes.

Maximise24
Messages
33
Reaction score
1
In a 1940 article in the Physical Review Wolfgang Pauli provides a definition for quantum causality: it is 'implemented microscopically by the requirement that observables commute at spacelike separations'.

I find this confusing. Doesn't spacelike separation by definition exclude causal relationships between events? And how exactly does operator commutativity relate to causality? Might someone be able to offer a qualitative interpretation of this statement?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Simple example: angular momentum. Suppose a system is initially spin up, Jz = +1. Now measure Jx. But Jz and Jx do not commute, so they have no simultaneous eigenstate. That means that Jz is no longer guaranteed to be +1. Measuring one has influenced the other, and that happened, basically, because they do not commute.

Now suppose instead of angular momentum we consider the Hamiltonian at two points A and B, with a spacelike separation between them. If they don't commute, measuring H at point A can affect H at point B. An influence has just traveled from A to B faster than light. This is obviously unphysical, so we must assume that H at A and H at B do commute, or else we will violate causality.
 
Maximise24 said:
Doesn't spacelike separation by definition exclude causal relationships between events? And how exactly does operator commutativity relate to causality? Might someone be able to offer a qualitative interpretation of this statement?

When using the phrase "quantum causality", there is no limitation on distance. So spacelike is not a factor. For that matter, timelike is not a factor either. An example of this would be the measurement of a member of an entangled pair here, which "quantum causes" the other member there (spacelike separated) to have a suitable matching value for the same observable. Such quantum causality may even be observed when particles have never interacted. Or even existed at the same time. In all cases, the uncertainty relations are observed (in consonance with Pauli's comments I suppose - not sure if my comments really address your question).

Please keep in mind that this avoids any discussion of what the word "causality" means itself. Since of course, the outcome of any quantum interaction appears to be random and without any underlying cause.
 
DrChinese said:
An example of this would be the measurement of a member of an entangled pair here, which "quantum causes" the other member there (spacelike separated) to have a suitable matching value for the same observable.

But this "quantum causality" works the same regardless of which measurement occurs first; in other words, the results are insensitive to the order in which the measurements are made, which is equivalent to saying that the measurements must commute. I think that's what Pauli was referring to. (This is also equivalent to saying that you can't use this "quantum causality" to send information faster than light, as Bill_K pointed out.)
 
PeterDonis said:
But this "quantum causality" works the same regardless of which measurement occurs first; in other words, the results are insensitive to the order in which the measurements are made, which is equivalent to saying that the measurements must commute. I think that's what Pauli was referring to. (This is also equivalent to saying that you can't use this "quantum causality" to send information faster than light, as Bill_K pointed out.)

Sure, the ordering is not material. Quantum causality is causality of quite a different kind!
 
Thank you for your answers!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
5K
  • · Replies 338 ·
12
Replies
338
Views
18K
  • · Replies 87 ·
3
Replies
87
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
814
  • · Replies 175 ·
6
Replies
175
Views
13K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
5K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 44 ·
2
Replies
44
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K