Quantum fluctuations and order

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between quantum fluctuations and the emergence of order in the universe, exploring the implications for theories of everything (TOE) and the compatibility of quantum field theory (QFT) with general relativity (GR). Participants examine the nature of quantum uncertainty and its impact on classical behavior, as well as the search for a unified theory that encompasses all fundamental forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how an ordered universe can arise from an uncertain quantum world, noting the correspondence principle that suggests quantum phenomena give rise to classical behavior.
  • Others argue that there is no conflict between special relativity and quantum vacuum fluctuations, asserting that quantum field theory provides a consistent framework for both.
  • Participants clarify that the perceived conflict is actually with general relativity, and some suggest that this conflict is resolved in the context of quantum field theory.
  • There is a discussion about the search for a theory of everything (TOE), with some participants suggesting that effective field theory (EFT) could bridge gaps in understanding quantum gravity.
  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the conflicts often mentioned in relation to QFT and GR, questioning the necessity of a TOE if EFT can explain quantum gravity.
  • Another participant notes that the search for a TOE is motivated by the desire to understand the limitations of current theories, particularly at small distance scales.
  • Some participants reference the outdated view that GR and QFT are mutually incompatible, suggesting that recent papers challenge this perspective.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the compatibility of quantum field theory with general relativity, with some asserting that there is no conflict while others highlight ongoing debates. The discussion on the necessity and implications of a theory of everything remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific interpretations of quantum mechanics and general relativity, as well as the unresolved nature of the conflicts between these theories. The discussion also reflects varying levels of understanding regarding effective field theory and its implications for quantum gravity.

DeathbyGreen
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Is there a good explanation for how we can explain an ordered universe arising from an inherently uncertain quantum world? I'm aware of the conflict between special relativity and quantum vacuum fluctuations, but is this the only issue? The correspondence principle would seem to imply that quantum gives rise to classical, but I haven't seen a good explanation as to why this is true.
 
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DeathbyGreen said:
I'm aware of the conflict between special relativity and quantum vacuum fluctuations
There is no conflict. Quantum field theory has both in a consistent framework.

Quantum fluctuations are simply too small to matter in our everyday world (unless you look at things like spectroscopy). The central value is always the classical behavior, tiny deviations from that are often irrelevant.
 
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Yes I meant General Relativity
 
Thanks for the reply. So when does talk of a TOE enter?
 
DeathbyGreen said:
Thanks for the reply. So when does talk of a TOE enter?

Into what?

Thanks
Bill
 
I was always under the impression that we searched for a TOE because quantum field theory can only explain 3 of the four fundamental forces. If QFT can describe the 3, and this paper suggests that an effective field theory can explain quantum gravity, doesn't this effectively constitute a TOE? Where are the conflicts that I always hear about? I've always been a little confused on this issue.
 
We search for a TOE for all sorts of reasons. But of relevance to EFT Quantum Gravity is the desire to peek behind the cutoff the theory has.

Thanks
Bill
 
The cutoff being the small scale right? Although wikipedia is not always reliable... "Through years of research, physicists have experimentally confirmed with tremendous accuracy virtually every prediction made by these two theories when in their appropriate domains of applicability. In accordance with their findings, scientists also learned that GR and QFT, as they are currently formulated, are mutually incompatible - they cannot both be right."
 
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As the paper I linked to explains that view is now outdated.

The cutoff is at small distance scales.

Thanks
Bill
 
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