Quantum Mechanics and the Nature of Determinism

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of particles in quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on their movement, the implications of the uncertainty principle, and interpretations of quantum behavior. Participants explore concepts related to determinism, randomness, and the measurement of position and momentum of particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether particles can "jump out" of objects, suggesting a need for insight into the behavior of particles within solid matter.
  • There is a discussion about whether particles possess definite position and momentum at all times, with some arguing that the uncertainty principle prevents simultaneous knowledge of both.
  • One participant proposes a thought experiment involving a machine emitting identical particles and questions the implications of measuring position and momentum separately.
  • Another participant emphasizes that quantum particles do not have clear trajectories and that their behavior is fundamentally probabilistic, contrasting it with classical mechanics.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumptions made regarding the identical nature of emitted particles and the spread of their wave functions.
  • Some participants mention the Bohmian interpretation of quantum mechanics as an alternative perspective, noting that various interpretations exist beyond the Copenhagen interpretation.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of knowing a particle's position and momentum, with some arguing that even with this knowledge, predicting future behavior remains impossible due to intrinsic probabilistic nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether particles have definite properties at all times and the nature of their movement. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing interpretations and models presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the behavior of particles in solid objects, the nature of measurements in quantum mechanics, and the implications of different interpretations of quantum theory. The discussion also highlights the complexity of understanding wave functions and their probabilistic distributions.

  • #31
The Dagda said:
I agree but I was talking more broadly. Thus the confusion, of course in experiment the model is perfectly deterministic given the assumption that the wave is real, that does not lead to the conclusion though that QM is deterministic, that is an unknown.

If that is all that matters to you then you have MWI, and are no doubt happy with its conclusions, however not everyone agrees that this means QM is fundamentally deterministic nor does there seem to be experimentally any indication that it isn't "random" or at least ill defined. If you actually look up the definition of deterministic, probability is not the least of your concerns.

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you're saying or what the premise of your argument is. You seem to be mistaken in believing that stage 1 deterministic time evolution demands MWI by itself. This assuredly is not the case, and is only an interpretation of the quantum formalism. Of course measurement outcomes are probalistic, but the pre-measurement probability distribution evovles in a perfectly deterministic manner in any interpretational framework. The philosophy of quantum mechanics is without a doubt an exceedingly complex and counter-intuitive endeavor, but I think you're getting hung up on a non-problem.
 

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