Quantum wavelength in gravitation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between quantum phenomena and their associated wavelengths and frequencies, particularly in the context of formulating gravity in quantum terms. Participants explore whether understanding the order of wavelength and frequency is crucial for quantum gravity, touching on concepts from quantum physics and energy levels.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that when discussing quantum phenomena, a wavelength is inherently involved, while others challenge this notion, suggesting that it may not be necessary.
  • A question is raised regarding the relevance of frequency, with some arguing that it should be on the order of atomic frequencies, while others suggest it should be much higher to observe quantum gravity effects.
  • One participant emphasizes that energy is the critical factor, arguing that the energies involved in quantum gravity should exceed those seen in atomic physics, as evidenced by the lack of observed quantum gravity effects at LHC energies.
  • Another participant discusses the common assumption that quantum phenomena imply small wavelengths, countering that larger de Broglie wavelengths can arise at low temperatures, where quantum effects become significant.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between quantum energy, frequency, and wavelength, with some asserting that quantum energy can exist without being tied to radiation or a well-defined frequency.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of wavelength and frequency in quantum phenomena, with no consensus reached on their importance in the context of quantum gravity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of energy levels and their relationship to observed quantum effects.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the relationship between quantum phenomena and classical concepts, noting that assumptions about wavelength and frequency may depend on specific contexts or definitions. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of quantum energy and its manifestations.

south
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TL;DR
The habit is assuming a small wavelength when the phenomenon is quantum. Does this habit help or harm in the case of gravitation?
When a phenomenon is quantum, there's a wavelength involved. In trying to formulate gravity in quantum terms, is it important to know the order of the wavelength, macroscopic or microscopic?
 
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south said:
When a phenomenon is quantum, there's a wavelength involved

No, there does not have to be. Only if you learn quantum physics from pop-sci books or very basic high-school books that talk about de Broglie wavelength.
 
weirdoguy said:
No, there does not have to be.
OK. Same question in terms of frequency. Should it be on the order of atomic frequencies or on the order of lower frequencies?
 
south said:
Same question in terms of frequency.

Energy. Energy is the thing that is used, and it should be way more than the order of energies we see in atomic physics. If it was the same order, then we would already see quantum gravity effects. Check out the energies that particles in LHC have - and we still haven't seen any quantum gravity effects.
 
Quantum energy without frequency nor wavelength? Good bye
$$E=h.\nu$$
?
 
Last edited:
south said:
The habit is assuming a small wavelength when the phenomenon is quantum.
@south It is the other way around, the shorter deBroglie wavelength is the more "classical" a system is. In very low temperatures, when the energy is low, the deBroglie wavelengths associated with the quantum systems are very large and therefore can easily overlap with each other. In this case the quantum effects are important.

south said:
Quantum energy without frequency nor wavelength? Good bye
$$E=h.\nu$$
?
The formula ##\Delta E = h\nu## is true for differences ##\Delta E = E_1 - E_2## between the energies of two quantum levels. Then ##\nu## is the frequency of a photon emitted or absorbed during the transition between the energy levels ##E_1## and ##E_2##.
 
south said:
Quantum energy without frequency nor wavelength?
Sure. Not all quantum energy is contained in radiation, and even for radiation, not all radiation is in a state which has a well-defined frequency or wavelength.
 

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