Question about Braket notation

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    Braket notation Notation
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of bra-ket notation in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on the relationships between different inner products and their implications in a problem involving a Hamiltonian operator. Participants explore the mathematical manipulations and properties of these notations within the context of an orthonormal basis.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the equality of < r | i > and suggests that < r | j >< a | j > should equal < r | i >< a | i >, but later acknowledges a typo in their notation.
  • Another participant clarifies that in an orthonormal basis, < r | i > equals the Kronecker delta, S_ri, but challenges the validity of the proposed equality involving < r | j >< a | j >.
  • There is a discussion about whether < r | i >< a | j > can equal < r | h | a >, with one participant expressing skepticism about this manipulation due to dimensional differences.
  • One participant revises their problem statement and asks if a specific expression involving a summation over indices can equal < r | h | a >, suggesting that if |i> and |j> form a complete set of basis vectors, the expression simplifies to a relationship involving the imaginary part of < r | h | a >.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain mathematical manipulations and the implications of dimensional analysis. There is no consensus on whether the proposed equalities hold true, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the relationships between the various expressions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their ability to express mathematical notation clearly due to technical issues with LaTeX, which may affect the clarity of their arguments.

chemstudent09
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Ok, here is my question.

When you have < r | i >, this equals Sri. So logically if that is that case, if you had SriSaj this would equal < r | j >< a | j >, right?

If so, then what does < r | j ><a | j > equal? I'm working a problem where I am trying to get a final answer of < r | h | a >. Is that even possible from what I have here?

By the way, S = Kronecker delta.
 
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In an orthonormal basis, yes, \left\langle {r}<br /> \mathrel{\left | {\vphantom {r i}}<br /> \right. \kern-\nulldelimiterspace}<br /> {i} \right\rangle = \delta _{ri}.

However, what you wrote, \delta _{ri} \delta _{aj} = \left\langle {r}<br /> \mathrel{\left | {\vphantom {r i}}<br /> \right. \kern-\nulldelimiterspace}<br /> {i} \right\rangle \left\langle {a}<br /> \mathrel{\left | {\vphantom {a j}}<br /> \right. \kern-\nulldelimiterspace}<br /> {j} \right\rangle is not true. I suspect a typo? Did you mean to put 'i' instead of the first 'j'?

EDIT: Ok until latex is back up, the first equation is <r|i> = S_ri. The second is S_ri*S_aj = <r|i><a|j>.
 
Yes sorry, that was a typo on my part. That first j was supposed to be an i.
 
Ok well, to answer your question, what you have with <r|j><a|j> is S_rj*S_aj.
 
Ok, now, is it possible for <r|i><a|j> = <r|h|a> ?
 
H is your Hamiltonian i assume? I can't imagine you'll get that manipulation ever if it is.
 
Last edited:
chemstudent09 said:
Ok, now, is it possible for <r|i><a|j> = <r|h|a> ?

Those don't have the same units. The left hand side is a pure number, and the right hand side has dimensions of energy.
 
Ok, I messed up in my problem. I have my problem worked down to this:

(I have to make E = Capital sigma (summation) because the LaTeX isn't working for some reason.)

E<i|h|j>[<r|i><a|j> - <r|j><a|i>]

(Sigma is summed over ij, I just don't know how to make it show on here)

Now is it possible for this to equal <r|h|a> ? In other words:

E<i|h|j>[<r|i><a|j> - <r|j><a|i>] = <r|h|a> ?
 
chemstudent09 said:
Ok, I messed up in my problem. I have my problem worked down to this:

(I have to make E = Capital sigma (summation) because the LaTeX isn't working for some reason.)

E<i|h|j>[<r|i><a|j> - <r|j><a|i>]

(Sigma is summed over ij, I just don't know how to make it show on here)

Now is it possible for this to equal <r|h|a> ? In other words:

E<i|h|j>[<r|i><a|j> - <r|j><a|i>] = <r|h|a> ?


Well, if |i> and |j> form a complete set of basis vectors (and i believe they do in this case), then the above expression reduces to this,
E<i|h|j>[<r|i><a|j> - <r|j><a|i>] = <r|h|a> - <a|h|r> = 2*iota*Im( <r|h|a> )
where Im() represents the imaginary part.
 

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