Quietus - Ear Ringing [Tinnitus] Relief

  1. Ivan Seeking

    Ivan Seeking 12,539
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    http://www.quietrelief.com/

    Right away we have a problem: homeopathy is a banned topic because there is no credible evidence suggesting that it works [not to mention some practical problems with classic dilution ratios]. However, for the moment we might assume that is not an accurate description of the product. Is this a placebo or is there more to it? If not a placebo, what is it, and is there any evidence that it works? Is it safe?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2010
  2. jcsd
  3. Evo

    Staff: Mentor

    A search on it says that there are no ingredients listed anywhere.
     
  4. Would a placebo even work on tinnitus? I suppose you could hypnotize someone to either not be annoyed by it, or even not to notice it, but they still wouldn't be able to hear normally.
     
  5. Hearing loss is hearing loss and, like, say, losing your sight, no, I don't think a placebo can change that. And while people experience hearing loss in correlation with having tinnitus, causation's a question.

    I have tinnitus in both ears and hearing loss and have for, I think, somewhere around 20 years. I have the world's spiffiest hearing aids to help stop me from leaning in too close to people to catch what they're saying or have everyone repeat themselves several times before I understand what's being said. (The technology in these things is way cool. They aren't amplifiers. But that's a whole other thing.)

    They do not, however, help in the least with the high-pitched whine that I hear in both of my ears 24/7. Part of my hearing loss is as a result of any sounds in the same pitch range as the noise in my ears is silent to me because they cancel out. It's dealable.

    My audiologist told me that there was a new body of research and a new line of thinking with regard to tinnitus and that's that it doesn't have to do with the ear. He said that some people were so troubled by the ongoing noise that they had surgery to have pieces of their inner ear removed, and the sound didn't go away. There's now -- according to him (and if I go and see him again, I'll see if I can get specific medical journal references and whatnot) -- a belief that the "noise" that people with tinnitus hear in their ears is actually emanating from the base of their skull. That something neurological is going on and misfiring messages to the portions of the brain that perceive sound. And telling those portions of the brain that there's a sound where there is none. The audiologist I go to said that there have been experiments on the brain where they touch certain portions of it and make the "noise" stop.

    So it's rather a phantom noise with nothing to do with the ears, but your body perceives that the sounds as coming from your ears because that's where we hear sound. If I can find the research on it, I'll share.

    Meantime, okay, let's suspend all disbelief for a moment about liquids that don't contain anything other than alcohol, water, and some flavouring and say, okay, maybe it can work. It, apparently, targets the entirely wrong area of the problem, and so I don't see how it could. Assuming I thought there was any legitimacy at all to homeopathy, beyond the placebo effect.

    And I've tried a bunch of stuff for this noise in my ears, and I'm a huge fan of the placebo effect, and I've not found a thing to make this stop. Yet.

    P.S. zooby, the book you recommended is fascinating.
     
  6. I think this may be the guy your audiologist referred to, Rodolfo Llinas (He fits what your audiologist was saying about it being neurological and having nothing to do with the ear mechanism, and stopping it with brain stimulation) :

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05E2DE163BF931A35751C1A96E9C8B63

    Here's a peer reviewed technical paper by Llinas:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC24801/

    Llinas is very interested in the role of thalamic rhythm. Your audiologist mentioned the sound emanating from the "base of the scull", though, so he may have meant someone else I haven't heard of, or he may have been thinking of some aspect of the deep brain stimulation Llinas has tried. I'm not completely sure if he was referring to Llinas or not, but I'm inclined to suspect he was.

    Here's a Nova interview with Llinas in which he gives a layman oriented explanation of his work:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/mind/electric.html


    I walked into Starbucks with it once and set it on the counter to dig money out of my pocket. The girl behind the counter saw it and went, "Oh my God! You're reading that book? That book is amazing!" So, I feel fairly confident recommending it.
     
  7. Moonbear

    Moonbear 12,265
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    Science Advisor
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    He might have been referring to cranial nerve 8, which is the nerve that carries sensory information from the ear and enters the brain between the pons and medulla in the brainstem (which is at the base of the skull). I always thought tinnitus was due to nerve damage anyway, and not actually something wrong with an ear structure, per se. Maybe what they're now thinking is that instead of it being the nerve, over time it's the part of the brain the nerve sends information to that isn't functioning properly?
     
  8. sometimes, "homeopathy" is used as a label to avoid issues of proving claims for a product with the FDA. put your ingredient that you think is the active agent in the "inactive ingredients" list, toss in some of that diluted homeopath water, and you just bought yourself a regulatory pass. so, when evaluating these things, don't forget to look beyond the "claims".
     
  9. I have to go back to the audiologist soon to have him "put more sound" in my hearing aids for me. I'll ask him for more specifics then.

    However, Moonbear, just over a decade ago -- maybe abour 93-94-- I went to an ENT guy who first diagnosed the noise in my ears as tinnitus. He explained to me, then, that the cause of it was some of the "hair cells" in your cochlea had died and therefore it created a "blank spot", of sorts, when the fluid travelled over them and that caused the noise in my ears. He told me that, along with hearing aids, I'd need white noise boxes attached to hearing aids to blank out the sound. I couldn't deal with that image of me, so, many years later, I have the funkiest hearing aids ever and just live with the high-pitched whine. I figure that, sooner or later, someone will come up with something.

    Thanks for the specific name, Zooby. I'll see if that's the research the audiologist is referring to.
     
  10. Llinas believes pretty much what you just said: it's a thalamus malfunction: that the nucleus of the thalamus that controls the auditory cortex is out of sync.

    This article about him is an easy read:

    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E05E2DE163BF931A35751C1A96E9C8B63

    and if you want to go more technical I also linked to the full text of one of his papers.

    I have to suppose that with such a common problem there are numerous research teams pursuing a variety of explanations, and that some overlap. So I can't be sure this is the guy her audiologist mentioned.
     
  11. Hmmm, that always makes me think "neuroma on 8"...

    edit: (note proper: Acoustic Neuroma)
     
  12. If you have pain in your ears, you need to see a doctor, first your GP or an ENT (otolaryngologist).
     
  13. http://www.quietrelief.com/homeopathic-study.html

    I don't think that knowing the ingredients makes this any better... unless you buy into each claim... and I don't.

    Apis Mellificais (reading between the lines) are honey bees crushed and mixed with alcohol and water for an extract.

    We have... Aristolochia clematitis (Birth Wort)

    Chamomile

    Lachesis Mutusis: Which AFAIK is only a homeopathic "thing"... one of those infinite dilutions of... yes... PIT VIPER venom.

    Thuja Occidentalis: OK... here we have a mild bacteriostatic, or it would be if it weren't in a homeopathic "preperation"

    Calendula officinalis: Marigold.

    Kali Phosphoricum: I have no idea... it appears to be unique to homeopathy, aka "roflcopter".

    Wait...

    WAIT........


    Salicylic Acid Well spank my butt and call me suzy, Aspirin. :rofl:

    So yeah, it's MAYBE a mild bacteriostatic and some aspirin... heavily diluted.
     
  14. Oh, and this is the extent of their claim to experiment "Huge Success!"

    I can hear Barnum laughing.
     
  15. There may be more than one kind of tinnitus. I remember reading a story once about microphones actually picking up a buzz being generated from one person's ear.

    The sound I hear in my ears since childhood seems to be one that no combination of frequencies could actually duplicate. It doesn't sound like anything I have ever actually heard.
     
  16. FlexGunship

    FlexGunship 740
    Gold Member

    HIJACK

    Oh my gosh... please please please... I've been waiting forever to post my favorite homeopathic remedy!!

    Okay, there's how it relates: the only way homeopathic medicine could work (let's be real here) is by the placebo effect, which is being discussed in this thread. Well, I have a case of VICARIOUS PLACEBO effect.

    [​IMG]
    (Source: http://www.amazon.com/Franks-Muscle-Relief-As-Seen/dp/B000FOX4QI)

    I saw this on TV a few years ago (back when I had cable). It's a homeopathic dog pain spray. Yes, that's right. It's a homeopathic spray for your dog with joint pain.

    That means, that AT BEST, it provides comfort to the dog's owner by allowing them to falsely believe their dog isn't in pain anymore. You haven't done anything to help your dog with his or her joint pain, but you feel less guilty about it! This is a real thing... or used to be.
     
  17. FlexGunship

    FlexGunship 740
    Gold Member

    This is untrue. If you read it, then it was from a disreputable source. However, I don't believe you read it; perhaps you misunderstood?

    If it's sound, a combination of frequencies could duplicate it. However, tinnitus does not depend upon actual sound to exist.

    EDIT: WAIT WAIT WAIT!!!!! This is from a thread that died off in March. Maybe not technically a necropost, but you revived this thread to talk about a story you read once about a sound coming from someone's ear?!

    I don't even know what to think. This thread is doomed...

    Can I have permission to start a new one about the homeopathic dog pain medicine? Please? Evo? Ivan?
     
  18. Evo

    Staff: Mentor

    Yes, you may start a new thread.
     
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