Reduction of Order ODE - Stuck on question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a second-order ordinary differential equation (ODE) using the method of reduction of order. Participants explore the steps involved in substituting a known solution and deriving a second solution, addressing challenges in integration and potential errors in their calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the ODE and the substitution of a known solution, y1 = x, into the equation to find a second solution, y2 = y1 f(x).
  • Participants discuss the differentiation of f(x) and the subsequent substitution into the ODE, leading to a complex expression involving f'', f', and f.
  • There is confusion regarding the integration of expressions involving g, with differing opinions on the correct form of g derived from ln(g) = 1/x - 2ln(x).
  • Some participants suggest alternative forms for g, including g = -x^2 exp(1/x) and g = x^2 exp(-1/x), indicating uncertainty in the integration process.
  • A participant notes the importance of not dividing by g when it could equal zero, which leads to the loss of a potential solution.
  • Another participant concludes that the general solution can be expressed as y = xf, but there is still uncertainty about the correct form of f and the implications of earlier steps.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct integration steps and the form of g, indicating that multiple competing interpretations exist. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the final form of the general solution and the implications of lost solutions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential errors in integration and the importance of considering cases where g may equal zero, which could affect the overall solution. There are unresolved mathematical steps that contribute to the confusion.

J--me
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Reduction of Order ODE - Stuck on question! Help Please!

The question says that y1= x is a solution to:

x^3 y'' + x y' - y = 0

It then says to use y2 = y1 f(x)

So I can do it this far and then I just get lost and my notes don't seem to clear anything!

I'm just going to say y(2) = y2 , f = f(x) and y = y1 just to make it easier!

So:

y(2) = f x
y'(2) = f' x + f
y''(2) = f'' x + 2f'

then sub it in:

x^3 (f'' x + 2f') + x (f' x + f) -f x = 0
f'' x^4 + f' ( 2x^3 + x^2) + f (x - x) = 0
Therefore: f'' x^4 + f' (2x^3 + x^2) = 0
Then my notes say that f' = g
So: g' x^4 + g (2x^3 + x^2) = 0
Then rearrange and integrate:
INT(1/g) dg = -INT(x^-2 + 2x^-1) dx
Ln(g) = 1/x - 2ln(x)
So g = exp(1/x) - x^2
As f' = g
f = INT (exp(1/x) - x^2) dx
So f = x exp(1/x) - 1/3x^3
I then put the final answer for y(2) into the equation but it doesn't equal 0 therefore its not a solution and wrong =S! So I've gone wrong somewhere. The question then goes onto say obtain a general solution and I am not sure how to do that either!
Any help would be good :smile: Thanks
 
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Hi J--me! :smile:
J--me said:
Ln(g) = 1/x - 2ln(x)
So g = exp(1/x) - x^2

nooo :redface:
 


Hey!
Lol! Thanks!
Should g = -x^2 exp(1/x)?
 


J--me said:
Hey!
Lol! Thanks!
Should g = -x^2 exp(1/x)?
Again no! ln(a-b)= ln(a/b).
 
nooo! :cry:

third try? :smile:
 


>.<! I may need a fourth try..

Ok so ln(a-b) = ln(a/b)
sooo: 0 = 1/x - ln(x^2) - ln(g)
0 = 1/x - ln(x^2/g)
Therefore: g = x^2 exp(-1/x) ? =S but if i use ln(a+b) = ln(a*b) then i get:
g = x^-2 exp(1/x) ? =S! o.O (sorry if I am doing something really silly!)
 
J--me said:
g = x^-2 exp(1/x) ? =S!

At last! :biggrin:
 


Cool! Thanks! =D! So the integration of that is g = f' so:
f = INT (g) dt = -exp(1/x) what do i do now to get the general solution?? =S
 
J--me said:
x^3 y'' + x y' - y = 0

It then says to use y2 = y1 f(x)

so your general solution is y = xf

(btw, you lost a solution of f' = g = 0 earlier on when you divided by g :wink:did you notice that?)
 
  • #10


Oh right so the general solution is just y(2) = -x exp(1/x) Thanks!

(Where did i lose a solution?? =S)
 
  • #11
you divided by g, which you can't do if g = 0 …
J--me said:
So: g' x^4 + g (2x^3 + x^2) = 0
Then rearrange and integrate:
INT(1/g) dg = -INT(x^-2 + 2x^-1) dx

that means you lost the solution g = 0 (so f = constant, so y = Cx)
 

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