Relative energy of simple 2 particle system (confused )

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relative energy in a two-particle system with different masses moving past each other at constant velocities. Participants explore how the choice of reference frame affects the perceived energy of the system, particularly focusing on kinetic energy calculations from different perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the energy of the system seems to depend on the reference frame, suggesting that it should be invariant regardless of perspective.
  • Another participant explains that when observing from the reference frame of particle m, particle M has kinetic energy calculated as 1/2 M v^2, while particle m has zero velocity, leading to different energy perceptions.
  • Conversely, if the reference frame is attached to particle M, the kinetic energy of particle m would be viewed as 1/2 m v^2, illustrating the relativity of energy observations.
  • There is a mention of the first law of thermodynamics, indicating that energy is not created or destroyed, but rather perceived differently depending on the observer's frame of reference.
  • A later reply prompts further consideration of what an external observer would see in the system, suggesting additional complexity in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of reference frames for energy perception, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of energy in relative motion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion does not resolve the assumptions about the reference frames or the implications of the first law of thermodynamics in this context, leaving these points open for further exploration.

Jonnyb42
Messages
185
Reaction score
0
Relative energy of simple 2 particle system (confused!)

Ok so I have a simple question which I feel I should know the answer to:

Setup:
Two particles of different mass.. say M and m (where M > m) are moving past each other by some constant velocity. If we view the energy of the system from m.. or fix our reference on m, we observe some energy of the total system.

Why is the energy of the system dependent on which particle we use as reference??
Shouldn't the energy of the system be the same regardless of reference frame?


(What I mean is, the energy is the total potential, plus the kinetic of the one that is moving. This energy is greater for the smaller mass, because it sees M moving with K = 1/2 M v^2, while the mass M sees m moving with K = 1/2 m v^2)

thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org


Physics homework questions should be posted to the physics homework forum.
 


..this isn't a physics homework question.. just a wonder of mine
 


If your reference is attached to m, than that means you see the particle M traveling with kinetic energy 1/2Mv^2 while particle m has zero velocity, relative to M. If you were attached to M, than you would see the opposite. You would see kinetic energy 1/2mv^2. It's all relative brotha. I think you're being confused with the first law of thermodynamics, which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. In this case it isn't. You're simply viewing energy from different perspectives.

Although, if you were an observer at rest watching the system of two particles traveling in opposite directions with M>m at constant velocity, what would you see?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
248
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K