Ring Direct Products .... Bland Problem 3(a), Problem Set 2.1, Page 49 ....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Problem 3(a) from Paul E. Bland's book on rings, specifically focusing on the structure of right ideals in the direct product of rings. Participants are examining a proof regarding the characterization of right ideals in the context of direct products and are seeking clarification on specific steps within the proof.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof claiming that every right ideal of the ring $$R_1 \times R_2 \times \ ... \ ... \ \times R_n$$ can be expressed as a product of right ideals from each component ring.
  • Questions are raised about specific steps in the proof, particularly the validity of the equation $$a(1,0) + b(0,1) = ( i_1 \pi_1 + i_2 \pi_2 ) ( a(1,0) + b(0,1) ) = (a_1, a_2)$$ and its implications for the inclusion $$A_1 \times A_2 \subseteq A$$.
  • Another participant reiterates the definition of a right ideal and its implications for the operations within the direct product, suggesting that the proof's steps are valid based on the properties of right ideals.
  • Casual exchanges occur among participants, including personal anecdotes and light-hearted comments unrelated to the mathematical content.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to have differing levels of understanding regarding specific steps in the proof, with some expressing confusion while others provide clarifications. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the clarity of the proof or the specific questions raised.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the reasoning behind certain equations in the proof, indicating a need for further clarification on the properties of right ideals and their operations in the context of direct products.

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I am reading Paul E. Bland's book: Rings and Their Modules and am currently focused on Section 2.1 Direct Products and Direct Sums ... ...

I need someone to check my solution to Problem 3(a) of Problem Set 2.1 ...

Problem 3(a) of Problem Set 2.1 reads as follows:https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/8062

My attempt at a solution follows:We claim that every right ideal of the ring $$R_1 \times R_2 \times \ ... \ ... \ \times R_n $$ is of the form $$A_1 \times A_2 \times \ ... \ ... \ \times A_n$$ ...Proof:

Suppose $$A$$ is a right ideal of $$R_1 \times R_2 \times \ ... \ ... \ \times R_n$$ ...

Let $$a \in A$$ and put $$A_1 = \pi_1 (A) , A_2 = \pi_2 (A) , \ ... \ ... \ , A_n = \pi_n (A)$$
Now $$a \in A$$ ...$$\Longrightarrow \pi_1(a) = a_1, \pi_2(a) = a_2, \ ... \ ... \ , \pi_n(a) = a_n$$

for some $$a_1 \in A_1, a_2 \in A_2, \ ... \ ... \ , a_n \in A_n$$Hence ...

$$a = ( i_1 \pi_1 + i_2 \pi_2 + \ ... \ ... \ + i_n \pi_n ) (a) $$$$= (a_1, 0, 0, \ ... \ ... \ , 0) + (0, a_2, 0, \ ... \ ... \ , 0) + \ ... \ ... \ + ( 0, 0, \ ... \ ... \ , a_n ) $$$$= ( a_1, a_2, \ ... \ ... \ , a_n)$$Hence ... $$A \subseteq A_1 \times A_2 \times \ ... \ ... \ \times A_n$$ ... ... ... ... ... (1)
Conversely ... Let $$a_1 \in A_1, a_2 \in A_2, \ ... \ ... \ , a_n \in A_n$$Note that again ... $$A$$ is a right ideal of $$R_1 \times R_2 \times \ ... \ ... \ \times R_n$$ ...

... and $$a \in A$$ and put $$A_1 = \pi_1 (A) , A_2 = \pi_2 (A) , \ ... \ ... \ , A_n = \pi_n (A)$$Then there are $$b_1, b_2, \ ... \ ... \ , b_n \in A$$ such that ...

$$\pi_1 (b_1) = a_1, \pi_2 (b_2) = a_2, \ ... \ ... \ , \pi_n (b_n) = a_n $$ ... Hence ...

$$b_1 ( 1,0,0, \ ... \ ... \ , 0 ) + b_2 ( 0, 1,0, \ ... \ ... \ , 0 ) + \ ... \ ... \ + b_n ( 0, 0,0, \ ... \ ... \ , 1 ) $$$$= ( i_1 \pi_1 + i_2 \pi_2 + \ ... \ ... \ + i_n \pi_n ) ( b_1 ( 1,0,0, \ ... \ ... \ , 0 ) + b_2 ( 0, 1,0, \ ... \ ... \ , 0 ) + \ ... \ ... \ + b_n ( 0, 0,0, \ ... \ ... \ , 1 ) )$$$$= ( a_1, a_2, \ ... \ ... \ , a_n) $$So ...$$ A_1 \times A_2 \times \ ... \ ... \ \times A_n \subseteq A$$ ... ... ... ... ... (2)Now ... $$(1), (2) \Longrightarrow A = A_1 \times A_2 \times \ ... \ ... \ \times A_n$$
Can someone please critique my proof ... and either confirm it is correct or point out the errors and shortcomings ... ...

Problem/Issue ... there is part of the above proof I do not fully understand ... I will relate the issue to text solution for $$n = 2$$ ...In Bland's text on the problem we read the following:

"... ... Hence $$a(1,0) + b(0,1) = ( i_1 \pi_1 + i_2 \pi_2 ) ( a(1,0) + b(0,1) ) = (a_1, a_2)$$, so $$A_1 \times A_2 \subseteq A$$. ... ... "I have two questions regarding the above quote:(1) Exactly why/how is the equation $$a(1,0) + b(0,1) = ( i_1 \pi_1 + i_2 \pi_2 ) ( a(1,0) + b(0,1) ) = (a_1, a_2)$$ ... true?

Can someone please explain in detail why/how this is true ...
(2) Exactly why/how does the above equation being true imply that $$A_1 \times A_2 \subseteq A$$ ... ?
Help with the above will be much appreciated ...

Peter
 
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Bland uses that $A$ is a right ideal of $R_1 \times R_2$.
So, if $a=(x,y) \in A$ and $u=(r,s) \in R_1 \times R_2$ then $au=(x,y)(r,s)$ exists and belongs to $A$.
Also $a(1,0)$ and $b(0,1)$, where $a,b \in A$, both exist and belong to $A$.
He then proves that $(a_1,a_2)=a(1,0)+b(0,1) \in A$
Now, try it again.
 
steenis said:
Bland uses that $A$ is a right ideal of $R_1 \times R_2$.
So, if $a=(x,y) \in A$ and $u=(r,s) \in R_1 \times R_2$ then $au=(x,y)(r,s)$ exists and belongs to $A$.
Also $a(1,0)$ and $b(0,1)$, where $a,b \in A$, both exist and belong to $A$.
He then proves that $(a_1,a_2)=a(1,0)+b(0,1) \in A$
Now, try it again.
Hi Steenis ... sorry to be slow in responding ...

But Hugo (one of my friends large standard poodles - Hugo and Pierre...) chewed up my glasses ...

Will be back in touch soon ...

Peter
 
No worries, I fill my time with studying.

(Hugo and Pierre ?)
 
steenis said:
No worries, I fill my time with studying.

(Hugo and Pierre ?)
Hugo and Pierre are the names of my friends large standard poodles ...

Peter
 
The point is: Hugo is my first name and Pierre = Peter is your first name ....
 
steenis said:
The point is: Hugo is my first name and Pierre = Peter is your first name ....
Quite a coincidence ... :) ...

Peter
 
Does this make us antipodal poodles ?
 
steenis said:
Does this make us antipodal poodles ?
Well ... the two standard poodles are intelligent... but quite eccentric ... :) ...

Peter
 

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