Roman empire and climate change

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential impact of climate change on the fall of the Roman Empire in the eastern Mediterranean from 100 AD to 700 AD. Participants explore various historical and environmental factors that may have contributed to the empire's decline, including agricultural practices, territorial expansion, and socio-political dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether climate change played a role in the fall of the Roman Empire, suggesting that barbarian invasions were a more significant factor.
  • Another participant proposes that the empire's expansion led to a geometrical progression of challenges, where increased territory required more resources and manpower than could be provided by the new regions acquired.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the transition from the Roman Optimum to a colder climate negatively affected food production, leading to unrest and warfare among both Romans and northern tribes, which contributed to the empire's decline.
  • One participant references earlier Greek colonization as influenced by the Iron Age Cold Epoch, indicating that climate has historically been a substantial factor in societal changes.
  • Another contribution discusses the Roman taxation policy and reliance on grain imports, suggesting that mismanagement of agricultural practices may have exacerbated vulnerabilities, including overgrazing in central Asia impacting migrations and conflicts in Europe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the role of climate change in the fall of the Roman Empire. There is no consensus, as some emphasize external invasions while others highlight environmental factors and agricultural policies.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various historical periods and climatic conditions, but the discussion does not resolve the complexities of these relationships or the specific mechanisms by which climate change may have influenced political and social upheavals.

wolram
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I wouldn't be one be to say. Id say they were analhilited by the barbarians. :]
 
Another view is that they hit geometrical progression.
As the empire got larger the perimeter that needed guarding increased - but the extra people inside the new territories didn't supply enough manpower/tax revenue to make it worthwhile.
This was a big problem as it expanded through (current) Germany and eastern Europe and bumped up against more border raiders.
 
Rome expanded through the period we now call the Roman Optimum (among other names) and when that period or cycle began to change to a colder one it not only caused problems for the Romans in food production and the related colder weather disadvantages, it caused problems for the Northern tribes who had increased in the warm climate to a point of suffering want of food as the northern and higher areas under cultivation diminished. This contributed to the unrest, and generally caused warfare as the havenots began to take from the haves.
This not only started a southern migration but prepared the "barbarians" through warfare for the battles against a nation (Rome) that had gone soft militarily, to the point of hiring out its protection to foreign armies. Some of these same armies were those that brought down the empire.

Based on this and other evidence, I believe that the answer is; yes, climate changes contributed to not only the rise, but the fall of Rome.
This is not unique by any streach. History is repleat with examples of climate change causing political and social upheavals.
 
Earlier Greek colonization of Mediterranean is attributed to the effects of the Iron Age Cold Epoch. While weather is not the only factor, it is always a substantial factor.
 
The Romans practiced a policy of taxation in which they received payment from territories and subject lands in the form of grain, and this system lead toward a provision agriculture policy in which the importation of grain was incouraged in order to keep the price low (for war). However, as noted by Adam Smith, the Romans themselves with their fertile farm land chose not to produce grain even though they held a comparitive advantage with growing graining versus other crops. The Romans therefore relied heavily upon taxes to inforce low grain prices.

I would also take into account over grazing in the central Asian steppes. This destruction of grassland is widely suspected to have caused the great Mongol conquest of the 12th century, and I would not doubt the effect that central Asian Turk migration due to overgrazing could have had on eastern European and Asian Germans. In fact, I would suspect this mismanagement of land to be another leading candidate.
 

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