Rotorcraft Stability: Explaining Spiral Instability in Aerospatiale Puma SA330

  • Thread starter Thread starter n69eil
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the stability of the Aerospatiale Puma SA330 rotorcraft, specifically addressing the phenomenon of spiral instability that occurs during large bank angles. Participants explore the mathematical and aerodynamic factors contributing to this instability, including the coupling of state matrix derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant indicates that the spiral instability is linked to the coupling between specific state matrix derivatives, namely Omega.aCosTheta, N'u, and N'w.
  • Another participant suggests that large yaw induced at high bank angles may cause the nose to pitch down, contributing to the spiral instability, but expresses uncertainty about the role of tail rotor effectiveness.
  • A participant acknowledges a correction in notation, changing N'v to N'u, which complicates the analysis further and notes the ineffectiveness of the vertical stabilizer for small perturbations.
  • One participant reports a lack of literature addressing the specific coupling of derivatives in question and recommends seeking additional insights from a specialized forum for rotary wing engineering.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the specific mechanisms of spiral instability and the coupling of derivatives, indicating that multiple viewpoints and questions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in available literature on the topic and the complexity of the derivatives involved, which may depend on specific definitions and assumptions not fully explored in the conversation.

n69eil
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Hi,

I have been working on a report about the stability of the Aerospatiale Puma SA330,, and shown that it has an inherent spiral instability during large bank angles.

I later found that this was due to coupling between the state matrix derivatives: Omega.aCosTheta, N’v and N’w.

Anyone any idea how to explain this?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
Oh man. You are going to make me pull out my very thick and old helicopter dynamics book.

IIRC, that means that there is going to be a large yaw induced at the large bank angle causing the nose to pitch down and thus the spiral. I am not sure, due to the notation, if this is due to a loss in the tail rotor effectiveness or not. I would imagine that the yaw would be in the opposite direction of the main rotor rotation if this were the case.

I really will have to look this up and see what I can find.
 
Hi,
thanks for reply...

also just noticed I made a mistake (N'v should be N'u) which kind of makes the problem nit more tricky :frown:

It has been seen that the vertical stabilizer is quite ineffective for small perturbations (sideslip).

It is the nature of these derivatives, and how they couple is confusing, especially for Nu as I can't find information on it.
 
Well, I did some searching in the literature that I own. I came up with nothing that covers the coupling that you are asking about. It may be there but I certainly did miss it if it is.

I would highly suggest that you post your question on Eng-tips.com. They have a forum specifically for rotary wing engineering. There are a lot of knowledgeable people in the business there. I am sure someone there can help you out. Sorry it took me so long to get back in touch with you. If you get an answer I'd like to see if you can post it here as well.

http://www.eng-tips.com/threadminder.cfm?pid=6
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
14K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
12K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
9K