News S&P Downgrades US To AA+, Outlook Negative

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The discussion centers on the U.S. credit rating downgrade by Standard & Poor's (S&P), attributed to perceived weaknesses in American political institutions and fiscal policy. Participants argue that the downgrade reflects a failure to effectively manage spending and debt, with particular blame directed at both major political parties for their inability to make substantial cuts. The Tea Party is mentioned as a group that attempted to address these issues but faced significant opposition. There is a consensus that the political gridlock, especially surrounding the debt ceiling negotiations, contributed to the downgrade, with some arguing that threats of default were exaggerated. The conversation also touches on the broader implications of government spending, the hoarding of cash by businesses due to uncertainty, and the historical context of fiscal responsibility across administrations. Overall, the dialogue highlights a deep frustration with the current political climate and its impact on economic stability.
  • #181
WhoWee said:
If the leaders I elect turn out to be idiots - I'm going to support a new leader - not put up with the idiot. That's not a superiority complex - they are paid well and are spending our money - I expect them to be competent and trustworthy. Is that wrong?

Absolutely not, I think that’s the whole point in a democracy.

I could be wrong, but AFAIK Michele Bachmann is the Tea Party presidential candidate, and too most people she looks both incompetent and untrustworthy, too put it mildly:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4SuzEWI_0o

So, how is this compatible with what you’ve just said? I don’t get it?
 
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  • #182
I note Mathews says "... all those guys [founding fathers] had slaves ..." which is false, and from that statement one could also try to make a specious argument similar to Mathews' that in so saying he is trying to reinvent American history.
 
  • #183
slavery is still legal in the United States as punishment for crime, as stated in the 13th Amendment itself.
 
  • #184
WhoWee said:
As for poor GE (they finance a lot of the corporate jets btw) - their CEO is Obama's jobs guy - they've traveled the world together to generate business for GE (there were other companies represented on the trip to India) - so please clarify your point about GE?

Btw - you forgot to mention the $45Billion tax credit Obama gave GM (after the union was bailed out at taxpayer expense).

That was a bit underhanded, wasn't it? Particularly when GM uses (abuses) it's global presence to hide income from U.S. taxes in the first place? Since then a lot of other companies, and some local and state governments have pulled the "woe are we - we will die without a bailout" ploy.

I used to own a GM vehicle. Now I have a GM receiver (hitch) implant in my Ford that's in upside down in protest of the GM debacle.
 
  • #185
DoggerDan said:
That was a bit underhanded, wasn't it? Particularly when GM uses (abuses) it's global presence to hide income from U.S. taxes in the first place? Since then a lot of other companies, and some local and state governments have pulled the "woe are we - we will die without a bailout" ploy.

I used to own a GM vehicle. Now I have a GM receiver (hitch) implant in my Ford that's in upside down in protest of the GM debacle.

My wife recently purchased a Ford Fiesta - 42.8 mpg (mostly highway). She loves the car and is spending about $600 less per month on gasoline.
 
  • #186
DevilsAvocado said:
...

... AFAIK Michele Bachmann is the Tea Party presidential candidate, and too most people she looks both incompetent and untrustworthy, too put it mildly:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4SuzEWI_0o

...


Once again, wow...

For some reason, "Lipstick on a Pig" popped into my head after watching that.

hmmm...

"The Teaparty has replaced it's previous pair of pretty lips with a new pair of pretty lips, to spread its schtick. Unfortunately, she's still a Sarah Palin."

...

It is really painful to think I'm surrounded by people who would want someone like either Palin or Bachman to lead this country of ours.

I'm torn between which video to choose to express my emotions:

Help me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14pIrRclWTY

or Kill me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B0sFtRTlx4

Odd. An acquaintance of mine, whom I've know for about 15 year, died yesterday in an apparent suicide. I wonder if he watched the Bachman clip.
 
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  • #187
Bachmann is a distraction from the real grassroots frontrunner: Ron Paul.
 
  • #188
Proton Soup said:
Bachmann is a distraction from the real grassroots frontrunner: Ron Paul.

Although I agreed with everything in the one and only video I saw of Ron Paul a while back, I saw another one a few days ago that gave me second thoughts.

Gold standard?

Taxes are theft?

Um, no. I disagree with both.

Just because a metal is shiny, and everyone thinks it has some sort of "magical value", doesn't mean anything to me.

And taxes are simply a method of getting people to pay for things that they would avoid paying for by:

"Pay to poop!? Why I can poop in the back yard fer free! Tuh hell with these darn taxes!"
 
  • #189
DevilsAvocado said:
Absolutely not, I think that’s the whole point in a democracy.

I could be wrong, but AFAIK Michele Bachmann is the Tea Party presidential candidate, and too most people she looks both incompetent and untrustworthy, too put it mildly:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4SuzEWI_0o

So, how is this compatible with what you’ve just said? I don’t get it?


IMO - the Left doesn't want a female President - otherwise Hillary would be the second President Clinton and Bill would be the First Gentleman.
 
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  • #190


OmCheeto said:
sparked by a non-event*

I agree with that too. The underlying facts didn't change one iota, right? Still, after some pondering, that doesn't fully explain the ups and downs of stock markets.

I think the downgrade can also be seen as a somewhat serious indication from the financial markets at politicians to stop the path they are on now and at least try and fix the government debt problem.

In that light, the markets adjusted to a probable future where the deficit gap is made smaller with a series of austerity measures. I.e., the party is ending and less capital will be flowing in the economy from the government. So, yes, the DOW should be lower.

(I didn't look at the videos, so excuses in the case I stated the obvious.)
 
  • #191
mheslep said:
I note Mathews says "... all those guys [founding fathers] had slaves ..." which is false, and from that statement one could also try to make a specious argument similar to Mathews' that in so saying he is trying to reinvent American history.

Yeah sure, if Mathews was running for president, it could be a problem with a falsification of history, but AFAIK he’s not.
 
  • #192
Proton Soup said:
slavery is still legal in the United States as punishment for crime, as stated in the 13th Amendment itself.

Wouldn’t that make Bachman’s false statement an even bigger problem?
 
  • #193
WhoWee said:
IMO - the Left doesn't want a female President - otherwise Hillary would be the second President Clinton and Bill would be the First Gentleman.

No one, not having smoked that tea, will believe this is an answer to my question.
 
  • #194
OmCheeto said:
Once again, wow...

Yup, a never ending story...

OmCheeto said:
For some reason, "Lipstick on a Pig" popped into my head after watching that.

:smile: Read my lips!

[PLAIN]http://killercolours.blogg.se/images/2009/miss_piggy_58893207.jpg

OmCheeto said:
It is really painful to think I'm surrounded by people who would want someone like either Palin or Bachman to lead this country of ours.

I say you have 99.9% understanding and sympathy from Europe. We can’t understand WTF is going on...

OmCheeto said:
I'm torn between which video to choose to express my emotions:

Help me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14pIrRclWTY

or Kill me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B0sFtRTlx4

May I present a third option? Laugh at the monster and realize it has a BIG mouth, yes, but in the end it will be alone (cross our fingers)...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3uQSqYzlgY

OmCheeto said:
Odd. An acquaintance of mine, whom I've know for about 15 year, died yesterday in an apparent suicide. I wonder if he watched the Bachman clip.

I’m very sorry to hear that OmCheeto, my condolences. :frown: Let’s hope he never heard about Bachman, she’s definitely not worth dying for...
 
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  • #195
DevilsAvocado said:
No one, not having smoked that tea, will believe this is an answer to my question.

Am I wrong? The Left didn't support Hillary and has brutally attacked both Bachman and Palin on a personal level.
 
  • #196
DevilsAvocado said:
Wouldn’t that make Bachman’s false statement an even bigger problem?

i'm not sure what you mean. i think she was trying to say that there have always been people opposed to slavery in the US. my point is simply, for folks that want to nit pick, that slavery didn't end with Lincoln. we are almost there, but not quite. and if someone would just bother to pick up the ball and run with it, it would be quite a feather in the cap. it's a little funny Obama doesn't pick it up, as he could be the first president to truly end slavery. but this constitutional scholar seems more interested in law and order, and no doubt the prison plantation industry has a bit of say in the matter.
 
  • #197
OmCheeto said:
Although I agreed with everything in the one and only video I saw of Ron Paul a while back, I saw another one a few days ago that gave me second thoughts.

Gold standard?

Taxes are theft?

Um, no. I disagree with both.

Just because a metal is shiny, and everyone thinks it has some sort of "magical value", doesn't mean anything to me.

And taxes are simply a method of getting people to pay for things that they would avoid paying for by:

"Pay to poop!? Why I can poop in the back yard fer free! Tuh hell with these darn taxes!"

yeah, I'm not interested in a gold standard, either. fiat currency is fine with me. if we did peg it to something, it might as well be wheat.

paying to poop is a genuine concern. that's why i support his call to bring the troops home from these meddling wars. we've got a crumbling infrastructure that needs repair, and if we keep spending all our gold on smashing the heads of foreigners, we won't have a pot to poop in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhxwJnPbzt4
 
  • #198
Proton Soup said:
... that's why i support his call to bring the troops home from these meddling wars. ...
I have, let's say, an affinity for Paul's mind-our-own-business foreign affairs and military policies, but I'd like an answer as to what he would do given a known Bin Laden 2.0 in some Remotastan, with plenty of money, tacit support for his training camps from the host government, a couple of blatant attacks on US ships and embassies under his belt, and a clear, repeated public statement that he planned to commit mass murder in the US at the earliest opportunity? What would President Paul do? Give more history lessons on 'blow back' while planes fly into buildings? He's ruled out even sanctions. What would he do if a Hitler 2.0 rolled into the Remotastan's Sudetenland equivalent? When the next million are under massacre in Rwanda 2.0? "Not our concern" doesn't work in the second round of history.
 
  • #199
mheslep said:
I have, let's say, an affinity for Paul's mind-our-own-business foreign affairs and military policies, but I'd like an answer as to what he would do given a known Bin Laden 2.0 in some Remotastan, with plenty of money, tacit support for his training camps from the host government, a couple of blatant attacks on US ships and embassies under his belt, and a clear, repeated public statement that he planned to commit mass murder in the US at the earliest opportunity? What would President Paul do? Give more history lessons on 'blow back' while planes fly into buildings? He's ruled out even sanctions. What would he do if a Hitler 2.0 rolled into the Remotastan's Sudetenland equivalent? When the next million are under massacre in Rwanda 2.0? "Not our concern" doesn't work in the second round of history.

bin laden/al qaeda is a response to meddling. so the first scenario is a question of maintaining the status quo. we knew about bin laden before 9/11. we had been in negotiations with the taliban before 9/11. we asked them to hand him over and they requested evidence of his guilt. we decided to not give evidence and attack them. we kill bin laden, and now we are still fighting a war. what are we really up to? to start another war with iran? why do we want to occupy an entire region and massacre millions?

i'm not sure why you're bringing up Rwanda. suggesting we fight moral wars? Clinton hemmed and hawed and did everything he could to avoid using the word "genocide" when we knew what was going on in Rwanda. did the same thing with Serbia until the concentration camp photos came out. you think if China started massacring Uigurs that we would step in? we've had terrible things going on in Ivory Coast, Sudan, Somalia, and didn't get involved. we got involved in Libya because Libya has oil. sure, asking him what is proper use of the military is a fair question, but argumentum ad hitlerium is disingenuous.
 
  • #200
DevilsAvocado said:
... Laugh at the monster

P.S. :biggrin:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eesuH_9bSjM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o6WS5H7xEE
 
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  • #201
WhoWee said:
Am I wrong? The Left didn't support Hillary and has brutally attacked both Bachman and Palin on a personal level.

Yes, you are dead wrong, because you are not answering my question. Let me help you out, one more time (emphasis mine):

WhoWee said:
If the leaders I elect turn out to be idiots - I'm going to support a new leader - not put up with the idiot. That's not a superiority complex - they are paid well and are spending our money - I expect them to be competent and trustworthy. Is that wrong?

DevilsAvocado said:
Absolutely not, I think that’s the whole point in a democracy.

I could be wrong, but AFAIK Michele Bachmann is the Tea Party presidential candidate, and too most people she looks both incompetent and untrustworthy, too put it mildly:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4SuzEWI_0o

So, how is this compatible with what you’ve just said? I don’t get it?


WhoWee said:
IMO - the Left doesn't want a female President - otherwise Hillary would be the second President Clinton and Bill would be the First Gentleman.

DevilsAvocado said:
No one, not having smoked that tea, will believe this is an answer to my question.

WhoWee said:
Am I wrong? The Left didn't support Hillary and has brutally attacked both Bachman and Palin on a personal level.


So once again: How can you be in favor of Michele Bachmann when she is clearly both incompetent and untrustworthy?


(We can take the Hillary/Bachman/Palin "feminist debate" once you answered my question.)
 
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  • #202
Proton Soup said:
i'm not sure what you mean. i think she was trying to say that there have always been people opposed to slavery in the US.

That’s not what she was saying. She said the founding fathers, writing The Constitution of the United States in 1787, "worked tirelessly until slavery was no more", and in a weird "conclusion" suspects that President Obama (if reelected) will end this precious period "over 21 generations" of pure and equal liberty in America – and reinstall slavery.

Most kids in 10th grade know that slavery ended in the American Civil War 1865, and still after that there was not full liberty for everyone until modern times.

This is what I call ignorant-moron-fear-propaganda that only other morons will buy.
 
  • #203
Proton Soup said:
yeah, I'm not interested in a gold standard, either. fiat currency is fine with me. if we did peg it to something, it might as well be wheat.

paying to poop is a genuine concern. that's why i support his call to bring the troops home from these meddling wars. we've got a crumbling infrastructure that needs repair, and if we keep spending all our gold on smashing the heads of foreigners, we won't have a pot to poop in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhxwJnPbzt4

I would vote for that Ron Paul.

Thank you for the video. I've never seen Rick Santorum before. He strikes me as an idiot. I can understand why his name is now synonymous with unmentionable nasty things.
 
  • #204
DevilsAvocado said:
Yes, you are dead wrong, because you are not answering my question. Let me help you out, one more time (emphasis mine):




So once again: How can you be in favor of Michele Bachmann when she is clearly both incompetent and untrustworthy?


(We can take the Hillary/Bachman/Palin "feminist debate" once you answered my question.)

You made a very big jump from your comment that she "looks" incompetent and untrustworthy to your position that "she is clearly both incompetent and untrustworthy" - your childish photos and Chris Matthews aside - you haven't supported anything more than my point that the Left attacks her (and other women) personally.

If you want to debate her competence - let's do so in the Obama 2012 thread. We can compare her resume to the Presidents - along with their legislative records. Just for fun let's compare her resume to Nancy Pelosi - the 3rd most powerful person in DC for the first 2 years of the Obama Administration.
 
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  • #205
Proton Soup said:
... we've had terrible things going on in Ivory Coast, Sudan, Somalia, and didn't get involved. ...

I think UN, and France, was involved in the Ivory Coast. Also, the UN, I think in the form of African Nations, is involved in Sudan.

The US intervened with other nations under an UN flag in Somalia several times. Most of the interventions were classified as failures since the goals were never met. It is interesting to note that -in the last US involvement- an Islamic group was supported.
 
  • #206
WhoWee said:
You made a very big jump from your comment that she "looks" incompetent and untrustworthy to your position that "she is clearly both incompetent and untrustworthy" - your childish photos and Chris Matthews aside - you haven't supported anything more than my point that the Left attacks her (and other women) personally.

We don't attack them because they are women, we attack them because we think they're idiots. You know, if she had just used the proper term; "forefathers", we would not be having this debate. But that argument would simply generate a whole 'nother round of jokes:

"Why didn't she say forefathers instead of founding fathers?"
"Because her husband doesn't like foreplay, and therefore doesn't want her using words starting with fore"
"Can she count to ten?"
"No. Four sounds too much like fore, so she has to stop at 3. Husband's orders."
"What do Michelle and her husband yell when they play golf?"
"Get the **** out of the way! I sliced another one!"

hmmm...

and from our fathers, fathers, fathers, father...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSELOCMmw4A

It's no wonder I'm a Marxist Commie Pinko Lefty. Those Python boys had way too big an influence on me.
 
  • #207
OmCheeto said:
We don't attack them because they are women, we attack them because we think they're idiots. You know, if she had just used the proper term; "forefathers", we would not be having this debate. But that argument would simply generate a whole 'nother round of jokes:

"Why didn't she say forefathers instead of founding fathers?"
"Because her husband doesn't like foreplay, and therefore doesn't want her using words starting with fore"
"Can she count to ten?"
"No. Four sounds too much like fore, so she has to stop at 3. Husband's orders."
"What do Michelle and her husband yell when they play golf?"
"Get the **** out of the way! I sliced another one!"

hmmm...

and from our fathers, fathers, fathers, father...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSELOCMmw4A

It's no wonder I'm a Marxist Commie Pinko Lefty. Those Python boys had way too big an influence on me.

my bold
If that's true - why haven't either one of you attacked Vice President Joe Biden?

He says and does really idiotic things - quite often - doesn't he?
 
  • #208
Proton Soup said:
paying to poop is a genuine concern. that's why i support his call to bring the troops home from these meddling wars. we've got a crumbling infrastructure that needs repair, and if we keep spending all our gold on smashing the heads of foreigners, we won't have a pot to poop in.

ps. Paying to poop is a personal pet peeve of mine. I used to poop in the back yard via a toilet, plumbing, cesspool, type of system. Someone decided that all that poop was bad for our groundwater, so they made us all buy into a big sewer system. I can't remember the exact figure now, but the city put a lien on my house of around $6000 to pay for the infrastructure. And now, instead of paying $10 a month for water, I have to pay $50 every month to the city to run the water/poop systems. Since it's the city collecting the money, I consider that a $40/month tax on my pooping.

I probably wouldn't mind to pay so much to poop, but every time we get too much rain, lots of our poop now overflows into our river. Which needless to say, is quite disgusting, and a bit contrary to why we needed the system in the first place.
 
  • #209
OmCheeto said:
ps. Paying to poop is a personal pet peeve of mine. I used to poop in the back yard via a toilet, plumbing, cesspool, type of system. Someone decided that all that poop was bad for our groundwater, so they made us all buy into a big sewer system. I can't remember the exact figure now, but the city put a lien on my house of around $6000 to pay for the infrastructure. And now, instead of paying $10 a month for water, I have to pay $50 every month to the city to run the water/poop systems. Since it's the city collecting the money, I consider that a $40/month tax on my pooping.

I probably wouldn't mind to pay so much to poop, but every time we get too much rain, lots of our poop now overflows into our river. Which needless to say, is quite disgusting, and a bit contrary to why we needed the system in the first place.

we've had similar stuff going on around birmingham, al, because the county has nearly gone bankrupt paying for court-mandated sewer repairs. so there has been a huge drive to get everyone they can added to the system as a source of revenue to pay off the bonds. so yeah, I'm familiar with the sort of harassment you may be experiencing.
 
  • #210
WhoWee said:
my bold
If that's true - why haven't either one of you attacked Vice President Joe Biden?

He says and does really idiotic things - quite often - doesn't he?

I don't watch much TV.
I get 99% of my news from Physics Forums.
You'll have to post a U-tube.

But not this one:

If those were his worst gaffes, he's got nothin' on Bachmann's screwy eyed lunacy.

my sincerest apologies to all the screwy eyes lunatics out there for putting Michelle in the same boat as you.
 
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