Selection rules for atomic transitions

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the selection rules for atomic transitions, particularly focusing on the requirement that the change in orbital angular momentum must be ±1. Participants explore the implications of these rules, the role of spin, and the interpretations of the underlying physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the selection rule \(\Delta\ell=\pm1\) and questions how this relates to the concept of spin, given that the Schrödinger equation does not incorporate spin.
  • Another participant suggests that the parity of electronic wavefunctions plays a crucial role in determining transition probabilities, indicating that transitions require different parity states to avoid cancellation in the integral involving the electric dipole operator.
  • A later reply reiterates the concern about the interpretation of selection rules and notes that while the rules are often viewed as strict, there are instances of "forbidden transitions" that can still occur, albeit faintly.
  • One participant mentions that the selection rule can be derived using group theory and emphasizes that the photon is understood to have spin 1, which aligns with the angular momentum change requirement.
  • Another participant points out that while the Schrödinger equation does not predict spin, it does predict orbital angular momentum, and that the selection rules can be viewed as a mathematical consequence of the equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of the selection rules or the role of spin in atomic transitions. Multiple competing views are presented, particularly regarding the implications of the Schrödinger equation and the nature of forbidden transitions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the interpretations of selection rules may vary and that the mathematical derivations may not fully capture the physical intuition behind the phenomena. There is also mention of limitations in the basic formalism of the Schrödinger equation regarding spin.

copernicus1
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Hi, I'm a little confused by the selection rules for atomic transitions. In pretty much any standard QM text, they derive the fact that an electron can't transition in an atom unless \Delta\ell=\pm1, i.e. unless the orbital angular momentum changes by one unit. Then the books go on to say that this can be interpreted as a consequence of the fact that the photon carries one unit of spin.

This seems strange to me, since the Schrödinger equation doesn't predict spin, and as far as I can tell, spin is not even put in by hand in these calculations. How do the transition rules somehow predict that the angular momentum must change by one unit when the whole formalism doesn't incorporate spin angular momentum?

It seems like someone working out this effect without any knowledge of spin would have to come up with some other interpretation.

Thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
My understanding was that it's down to the parity of the original and new electronic wavefunctions. The electric dipole operator has odd parity (swap all the positions and it points in the opposite direction), and the transition probability is proportional to <new state|electric dipole operator|old state>, so for this integral to be nonzero the new and old states must have different parity values, i.e. <+|-|-> or <-|-|+>, otherwise the two wave-functions will cancel. States with the same l have the same parity, so transitions must involve the electron either gaining or losing one quanta of orbital angular momentum or the integral is zero and the transition is "forbidden".
 
Then the books go on to say that this can be interpreted as a consequence of the fact that the photon carries one unit of spin.

This seems strange to me, since the Schrödinger equation doesn't predict spin, and as far as I can tell, spin is not even put in by hand in these calculations. How do the transition rules somehow predict that the angular momentum must change by one unit when the whole formalism doesn't incorporate spin angular momentum?

It seems like someone working out this effect without any knowledge of spin would have to come up with some other interpretation.

The selection rule is just a rule of thumb; the radiation at frequency corresponding to "forbidden transition" has certain non-zero presence in the spectrum of the gas of atoms. The corresponding lines are just too faint when compared to regular ones.

You are right, there is never one correct interpretation. That's why the word "interpretation" - it is often very subjective view of what it all means and there are usually more than one.

Spins and photons indeed do not figure in the basic Schr. equation, but the selection rule still follow from the latter. This can be viewed as a purely mathematical fact, that certain eigenvibrations of Schr. equation are hard/impossible to excite by external light wave. This happens in simpler models too, for example a set of coupled harmonic oscillators can have eigen-modes which are hard to excite by external light wave.
 
Schrödinger eqn does not predict the nature of intrinsic spin,but it does predict orbital angular momentum.The change in total angular momentum is ±1 which can be derived from other means like invoking group theory.The result can be interpreted if we say photon has spin 1.By the way it is possible to prove using maxwell eqn that photon does have spin 1 character.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
9K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
14K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K