SHM: Gravity-Powered Train (Brace Yourself)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a train traveling through an underground tunnel between two cities, powered by gravitational force. The problem requires finding the time taken for the train to travel between the cities and determining the initial velocity needed to achieve a specific travel time. The context includes concepts from Simple Harmonic Motion (SHM) and differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between the time taken for the train to travel and the initial velocity. Some express uncertainty about their approach and seek clarification on how to relate their equations to time. Others explore the sinusoidal nature of the motion and the implications of initial conditions on the solution.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing their attempts and reasoning. Some have provided insights into the SHM nature of the problem, while others are questioning their methods and seeking further understanding. There is acknowledgment of a potential solution, but no consensus has been reached regarding the correct initial velocity.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of the problem and the challenge of interpreting the initial conditions. There is mention of a solution page that provides an answer that some participants are unsure how to derive, indicating a gap in understanding that remains to be addressed.

lowea001
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Homework Statement


[/B]
Two cities are connected by a straight underground tunnel, as shown in the diagram. A train starting from rest travels between the two cities powered only by the gravitational force of the Earth, F = - \frac{mgr}{R}.
Find the time t_1 taken to travel between the two cities (i.e. half the period). The distance between the two cities is d and the radius of the Earth is R. Now, suppose the train is given an initial an initial velocity v_0. What is v_0 if the time taken to reach the other end of the tunnel is now t_2 = \frac{t_1}{2}.

Hint: Since t_1 = \frac{T_1}{2} that means t_1 = \frac{1}{2} \frac{2 \pi}{w} = \frac{\pi}{w} and therefore t_2 = \frac{\pi}{2w}.

Capture.PNG


I have the answer to this question I just don't know how to do it.

Homework Equations



Simple Harmonic Motion, Separable DE, Second-order DE, Newton's Second Law, Chain Rule

The Attempt at a Solution



I can get an equation for v_0 in terms of x and v but I don't know how to get that in terms of t or if I'm even approaching this the right way.
20160410_175252.jpg
 
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lowea001 said:

Homework Statement


[/B]
Two cities are connected by a straight underground tunnel, as shown in the diagram. A train starting from rest travels between the two cities powered only by the gravitational force of the Earth, F = - \frac{mgr}{R}.
Find the time t_1 taken to travel between the two cities (i.e. half the period). The distance between the two cities is d and the radius of the Earth is R. Now, suppose the train is given an initial an initial velocity v_0. What is v_0 if the time taken to reach the other end of the tunnel is now t_2 = \frac{t_1}{2}.

Hint: Since t_1 = \frac{T_1}{2} that means t_1 = \frac{1}{2} \frac{2 \pi}{w} = \frac{\pi}{w} and therefore t_2 = \frac{\pi}{2w}.

View attachment 98901

I have the answer to this question I just don't know how to do it.

Homework Equations



Simple Harmonic Motion, Separable DE, Second-order DE, Newton's Second Law, Chain Rule

The Attempt at a Solution



I can get an equation for v_0 in terms of x and v but I don't know how to get that in terms of t or if I'm even approaching this the right way. View attachment 98904
Your picture of your work is very hard to read. Can you type your work into the forum? Have you learned how to use LaTeX here yet? There is a tutorial on it in the Help/How-To section (hover over INFO at the top right of the page). :smile:
 
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the 2nd part of the question is still SHM, which is known to have a sinusoidal solution A*cos(ωt+Φ), where A and Φ are to be found by fitting the initial conditions given above. With a complete trajectory it should be trivial to work out the required v0. Chain rule is not required to solve the equation.
 
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berkeman said:
Your picture of your work is very hard to read. Can you type your work into the forum? Have you learned how to use LaTeX here yet? There is a tutorial on it in the Help/How-To section (hover over INFO at the top right of the page). :smile:
Hiya, sorry about that. It wasn't going down the right path so I tried it again below.
throneoo said:
the 2nd part of the question is still SHM, which is known to have a sinusoidal solution A*cos(ωt+Φ), where A and Φ are to be found by fitting the initial conditions given above. With a complete trajectory it should be trivial to work out the required v0. Chain rule is not required to solve the equation.
Thanks. Overthinking can be the worst. However, I'm still doing something wrong I believe. This is my attempt:
\frac{\mathrm{d^2} x}{\mathrm{d} t^2} = \frac{-g}{r} xTherefore the solution is of type: x = Asin(wt + \phi) and also since x(0) = Asin(\phi) = \frac{-d}{2}, and x(t_2) = x \left( \frac{\pi}{2w} \right )= Asin\left( \frac{\pi}{2} + \phi\right ) = \frac{d}{2} this gives a value of \phi = - \frac{\pi}{4}. Plugging this back into the original equation solves for the amplitude: Asin(\frac{-\pi}{4}) = \frac{-d}{2}. Therefore A = \frac{d}{\sqrt{2}}. Since v_0 = \frac{\mathrm{d} x(0)}{\mathrm{d} t} = Awcos\left(\phi \right )= Awcos\left( - \frac{\pi}{4}\right )= \frac{d}{\sqrt{2}} \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}w. Thus: v_0 = \frac{d}{2} w.
 
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lowea001 said:
Hiya, sorry about that. It wasn't going down the right path so I tried it again below.
Thanks. Overthinking can be the worst. However, I'm still doing something wrong I believe. This is my attempt:
\frac{\mathrm{d^2} x}{\mathrm{d} t^2} = \frac{-g}{r} xTherefore the solution is of type: x = Asin(wt + \phi) and also since x(0) = Asin(\phi) = \frac{-d}{2}, and x(t_2) = x \left( \frac{\pi}{2w} \right )= Asin\left( \frac{\pi}{2} + \phi\right ) = \frac{d}{2} this gives a value of \phi = - \frac{\pi}{4}. Plugging this back into the original equation solves for the amplitude: Asin(\frac{-\pi}{4}) = \frac{-d}{2}. Therefore A = \frac{d}{\sqrt{2}}. Since v_0 = \frac{\mathrm{d} x(0)}{\mathrm{d} t} = Awcos\left(\phi \right )= Awcos\left( - \frac{\pi}{4}\right )= \frac{d}{\sqrt{2}} \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}w. Thus: v_0 = \frac{d}{2} w.
This is the result I obtained as well
 
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Thanks for your help guys. I have a much better understanding of the problem now (it's kinda neat actually) but the answer given in the solution page is v_0 = Rw, which I'm not sure how to obtain.
 

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