Should American buy in American Dream?

[phoenix:\\]

Not necessarily how they are brought up? That is true, and I was rethinking it when reading over it, it isn't so black and white as I put it, so I agree.

 

[DragonPetter]

IMO, you're setting an unreasonably high baseline. "Came up from nothing" may be a technically inaccurate cliche', but what it really means is nothing more than what everyone else is provided. .

I suppose we have different definitions of coming up from nothing. I don't think "nothing more than what everyone else is provided" is coming up from nothing. I think that is succeeding with fair opportunities. Its still an amazing accomplishment, but its not really rising in the face of adversity.

To be fair, her father was an EE and you mention your own father was also an educated engineer who was able to mentor you and that helped set you out on the right path. I think this is invaluable, and I would consider it a huge advantage over other children who have no one to guide them or even answer basic science questions, even if their parents are rich (but more likely poor). It is just impossible for me to consider someone who had parents who were college educated with engineering degrees raising them to come from nothing, unless there were some other extreme circumstances preventing them from having successful lives.

I can think of some kids I grew up with who were extremely dirt poor and abused by their parents, and had so much unnecessary burden in their early lives that they had little chance to make a life for themselves. When people like that succeed, I consider them coming up from nothing.

And I think your girlfriend better represents someone coming from nothing. When her own family does not support her or give her opportunity, she still is able to rise and pursue her goals.

 

[turbo]

I can think of some kids I grew up with who were extremely dirt poor and abused by their parents, and had so much unnecessary burden in their early lives that they had little chance to make a life for themselves. When people like that succeed, I consider them coming up from nothing.

And I think your girlfriend better represents someone coming from nothing. When her own family does not support her or give her opportunity, she still is able to rise and pursue her goals.

Many of my friends did not live in houses that had running water or any kind of viable septic systems. They lived in shacks that were put up in the 1920s to house workers building Wyman Dam. The shacks were shelter, but they were not viable, long-term. By the time I was 10, my father had put a down-payment on a run-down house, and we had a bit more room and hot running water! What a nice upgrade!

Most of my friends had to draw water from a spring or use a hand-pump at the kitchen sink to get water. My wife grew up the same way. They had a hand-pump at the kitchen sink, but everybody preferred the taste of the spring-water, so the younger girls had to fetch water from that spring several times a day.

 

[rhody]

Aspiration is a good thing, but it must be tempered with a sense of reality/sobriety.

Plus the realization that if you borrow (as opposed to saving and investing your own money), the fruits of your labors may be subject to liens and foreclosures. Easy credit should not be confused with prosperity because credit can be fragile.

Good advice, Turbo, Astro. You need passion, a plan, persistence, a level head, be flexible to take advantages of opportunities that may come your way, have resouces (cash not relying on banks for success is important, at least to me), work hard, stay focused, have a bit of luck and never ever ever give up on your dream, no matter what others say. I have learned to take things one step at a time, to be patient, and always keep a "Big Picture" in your mind.

Rhody...

 

[russ_watters]

Ambition cannot be taught and ambition is more coupled with other things than itself alone.

That logic leads down a dangerous road that ends with the conclusion that the poor are genetically inferior to the rich. Do you really believe that?

 

[turbo]

That logic leads down a dangerous road that ends with the conclusion that the poor are genetically inferior to the rich. Do you really believe that?

As a child,I was brought up to be a hard worker. Not aggressive or nasty, but a winner. That was over 40 years ago, but perhaps we could benefit from a bit more of that attitude.

 

[rhody]

...perhaps we could benefit from a bit more of that attitude.

Amen. Anything else is an excuse and/or a cop out, IMHO.

Rhody...

 

[turbo]

About '64-'65 I asked the sexton of the local cemetery if I could work for him, mowing and clipping. He gave me a shot, and when he showed up that afternoon, the other kids (2-3 years older than me) shut off their mowers and made a big show of cleaning the under-decks, checking the oil, etc. They were also making grand gestures, including the areas that I had mowed. The next spring, the sexton called me and asked me to start keeping up the cemetery, and I was the only one that he hired. The other kids could go pound sand, because he couldn't afford the time to ride herd on the slackers. He never had to check up on me, because he knew that I would work hard all day and report my time accurately. All my money went right into my savings account, though I was pretty pissed about how much FICA was taking.

 

[mheslep]

Aspiration is a good thing, but it must be tempered with a sense of reality/sobriety.

Aspiration nearly always becomes so tempered in my experience; life naturally does that. But the aspiration has to come first, a roll where parents can be very detrimental.

 

[Alex_Sanders]

That logic leads down a dangerous road that ends with the conclusion that the poor are genetically inferior to the rich. Do you really believe that?

I'd strongly disagree with that. Based on my experience, most ambitious kids are from those under-achieved parents' parenthood. Some of them even openly showed there discontent to me "I can't believe my parents wouldn't put up a fight" "Boy I hope they wouldn't settled down that fast" they say.

If you are from a low-income family, and saw what rich parents could offer, there got be a loud "ringing" noise in your head reminding you "this is not going to happen to my kid".

Sorta like, super conservative families sometimes brew super liberal kids and vice versa.

 

[Drakkith]

Hmmm. I feel that since people from all walks of life are successfull, the issue is much more complicated than simply who's from a better off environment. Nor do I see anyone aspect that is the "most" important thing. Aspiration, hard work, smart choices, all of these are important, along with more.

 

[BBQgoat]

The American Dream is possible but unfortunately not for everyone (not sure if that goes against the whole idea of the American Dream). Also those who do succeed in reaching this feat will not necessarily be the smartest, the most perseverant, or the most hardworking. Hate to sound pessimistic -especially since I'm always looking for motivational movies, videos, speakers, and quotes- but sometimes no matter what you're capable of or how hard you work, the harsh reality is that you may never reach your goal. We all have hopes and dreams but not everyone can succeed in reaching them, especially in a society of 8 billion where we need people to be at the bottom, middle, and the top in order for it to function.

Life is prone to drastic, unforeseen occurrences. Nobody really plans on their wife cheating on them or their parents dying but sadly, it may be imminent. Similarly we may not plan on living a life we loathe, but it may certainly be our fate; and for 90% of the world it will be. But to just write it off as impossible and not even try would be stupid.

 

[Drakkith]

Luckily the end goal is usually just the final steps in a long process, so even if you don't reach it doesn't mean your a piece of crap with no job.

 

[russ_watters]

The American Dream is possible but unfortunately not for everyone (not sure if that goes against the whole idea of the American Dream). Also those who do succeed in reaching this feat will not necessarily be the smartest, the most perseverant, or the most hardworking. Hate to sound pessimistic -especially since I'm always looking for motivational movies, videos, speakers, and quotes- but sometimes no matter what you're capable of or how hard you work, the harsh reality is that you may never reach your goal. We all have hopes and dreams but not everyone can succeed in reaching them, especially in a society of 8 billion where we need people to be at the bottom, middle, and the top in order for it to function.

Um - 8 billion is more than the population of the world. Certainly the American Dream is not available to most of the people in the world, but I would say that it is available to almost all Americans except for a very small fraction who have been very unlucky.

Based on education vs income statistics, I'd say that the primary barrier to achieving the American Dream is failure to finish high school: http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_chart_001.htm