Should politicians take a vow of poverty?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the proposal of politicians taking a lifelong, legally-binding vow of poverty, which would provide them with a minimal subsistence income while restricting their ability to receive gifts. The conversation explores the implications of such a vow on corruption, political motivation, and the quality of candidates willing to serve in office.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that a vow of poverty could reduce corruption by eliminating financial incentives for politicians.
  • Others argue that politicians are primarily motivated by power rather than money, suggesting that a vow of poverty may not address the root causes of corruption.
  • Concerns are raised that a low stipend could deter capable individuals from entering politics, potentially leading to a loss of talent in governance.
  • Some participants question whether power-hungry individuals would be willing to accept such a vow, positing that those who genuinely want to make a difference would still need adequate means to live.
  • There is a suggestion that existing systems of accountability in multi-party systems may inherently counteract corruption, though some express skepticism about their effectiveness.
  • Several participants express the view that the proposal may be too extreme and could inadvertently push out honest politicians while failing to deter corrupt ones.
  • Discussions also touch on the potential for corrupt politicians to find ways around restrictions, raising concerns about personal freedoms and the practicality of enforcement.
  • Some participants emphasize the need for politicians to be compensated fairly for their work, arguing that a vow of poverty contradicts the principles of public service and freedom.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views remain regarding the effectiveness and implications of a vow of poverty for politicians. The discussion reflects a range of opinions on the motivations of politicians, the nature of corruption, and the potential consequences of such a policy.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying assumptions about the cost of living and the adequacy of a $15,000 stipend, particularly in different regions. There are also unresolved questions about the balance between reducing corruption and maintaining a functional political system.

Should politicians take a lifelong vow of poverty?

  • Yes, I think it should be given a try.

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • No, I don't think so.

    Votes: 15 78.9%

  • Total voters
    19
  • #31
Given that the job of politicians is to legislate on important issues, what does a politician's ability to understand Washington have to do with anything except his career advancement?

Granted, some high-ranking politicians must also be diplomats. However, these are a minority.

Understanding of foreign affairs is important, and it would be the politicians' job to do so. If they don't do it well, you vote them out of office, as you do now.


Basically, anyone who argues against me must take the stand that there are less than a thousand good, smart people willing to give their lives for their nation in all the USA. Is that really true?
 
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  • #32
Well now you have to differentiate between legislators and other politicians. Anyone other then the people who are locked up passing bills all day need to understand how the system works in order to best make use of their positions. Remember, a politician is anyone who administrates in a governmental capacity. Many politicians are not voted on and simply 'come with the package'. A secretary of commerce might face difficulties if his only goal is to build a better economy and doesn't understand various organizations he works with like transportation and environmental committies and such. Let's say you have a secretary of defense and the head of the EPA at odds over a new military base. If they just tried to take their stands, we'd get nowhere. A good politician would know how to do all that "you scratch my back, i scratch yours, things get done" crap.

Legislators are actually the only people who coudl really be affected by such an idea as it is true they are only suppose to be there to stand up for what they (and by implication, the voters) believe in.
 
  • #33
BicycleTree said:
Basically, anyone who argues against me must take the stand that there are less than a thousand good, smart people willing to give their lives for their nation in all the USA. Is that really true?

The real stand is that you need to find probably a good 10,000 people who exhibit the following qualities.

Honest, willing to do one of the toughest jobs a human can do, willing to spend very little time with their family, willing to take personal abuse, willing to lose almost all sense of privacy, willing to have a microscope inspection of every word you speak, all at minimum wage for a few hundred million people who think politicians are slimeballs simply because they don't get their way all the while having no chance of advancing in the world and living in a nice home and living the 'american dream'
 
  • #34
Well, I suppose I was really only considering legislators. It would be much more difficult to tear out the corrupt politicians from offices where you really need to be an insider.

The criteria you describe leave out the important thing that the job the people would be taking would be in the highest ideals and would be very important. I think you could find 10,000 of those, easy, but 1000 is all you would really need to fill congress. When you reach a certain point in your life, you stop worrying about material gain and start thinking about more meaningful things--and because of your age you don't have a lot of other concerns in the way. Such people, I think, would be quite willing to give up material wealth in return for living meaningfully.
 
Last edited:
  • #35
Well if the people around the US are anything like the people i know, good luck.
 
  • #36
I have edited.
 
  • #37
lol my opinion still stands. But i must add that i only know younger people so that's probably a big reason i wouldn't be able to find even 1 fit for the job.
 
  • #38
BicycleTree said:
Doesn't that sound a little like the politicians' "respective groups" to you?

I am not saying that defending one's group is corrupt, but it is not altruistic.

I do think politicians should be made slaves of the state. The sacrifice of the freedom of the few is sometimes needed to ensure the freedom of the many.
No. The community is not their "group", it's the people to whom they are responsable. When you better education you better it for everyone not just democrats or just republicans. The same goes for fixing roads and the economy and so on and so forth. These are not things that only help certain groups, they help the entire community.

At any rate, as already pointed out by many, you are considerably hindering these people. How are they supposed to have a wife? How are they supposed to have a family? How about friends and just a regular social life. How about hobbies? Just about every employer realizes that their employees need to be happy and need a life outside of work or their productivity will decline. My own employer encourages us to take vacation and gives us plenty of vacation time. A person needs to enjoy their life or they will not be a productive individual. Even if a person enjoys their job every one still needs something beyond that.
Also you may want to consider that most of the people out there that vote like to see candidates you have a family and are married. The set up you have makes this all but impossible and would probably ruin just about any marriage.
 

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