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News Should we bring back Capital punishment for premeditated murder?

  1. Sep 3, 2011 #1

    rede96

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    Its my first time posting in this part of the PF, so just thought I’d say hello! :smile:

    I live in the UK where the death penalty was abolished in the 60’s. (Well I think it was actually abolished in the 90’s but the last hanging was in the 60’s.)

    I don't know if it is just me, but it seems that I am reading more and more about brutal and premeditated murders in today’s society.

    The latest one, about a boy who murdered his girlfriend of a ‘free breakfast’ was probably one of the most brutal and upsetting I’d read in a while, particularly as I have a daughter her age.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...-joshua-davies-is-pure-evil-115875-23391730/"

    Where there is clear evidence of such a premeditated act, I can’t see any reason why this person should not be put to death.

    I don’t really believe the death penalty is a deterrent, but I do think the punishment should fit the crime and that death penalty would also save a lot of tax payer’s money in keeping someone ‘comfortably’ in some prison for life.

    I know some may argue that we have a duty to rehabilitate, but to me that ‘right’ is lost when one commits such a heinous crime.

    So I was just wondering what others thought?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2017
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  3. Sep 3, 2011 #2

    Char. Limit

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    Note that I live in the northwestern US.

    Personally, I support the death penalty for certain crimes that I consider heinous. There aren't many crimes that fit this description, but the few that do include premeditated murder and violent rape. However, I can see the counter-arguments now, and they are reasonable. It's true that we sometimes convict the wrong person, and a death sentence is somewhat irreversible.
     
  4. Sep 3, 2011 #3

    rede96

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    Yes, convicting the wrong person is a very valid point. However with some cases, as with the one mentioned above or the shootings in Norway for example, there is no doubt. So in these cases that argument is irrelevant.

    I also think with advances in technology and forensics that in some cases it can be proven beyond doubt.

    So although I believe that it may not be possible to prove in every case, those that are should apply also.
     
  5. Sep 3, 2011 #4

    Pythagorean

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    So glad I don't have to stress over this dilemma. I just don't give a copulation.

    Whenever I do think about it (like when somebody makes a thread) it stresses me out for a second while I do care. What a horrible decision to have to make.
     
  6. Sep 3, 2011 #5

    Evo

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    Well, let's bring Breivik into this. No question of his guilt, no question of his premeditation, no question about his cold blooded killing method. Improbablbe that someone this demented can be rehabilitated. No question that a sentence to a Norwegian prison spa is too much a reward for what he's done. No question that the death penalty is too good for him.
     
  7. Sep 3, 2011 #6

    Pythagorean

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    There's not really an argument developed there Evo, just assertions.

    If somebody is threatening my life, I have no moral dilemma putting them down. If the damage is already done and there's no immediate threat, it's just vengeance/justice, whatever those mean.
     
  8. Sep 3, 2011 #7

    micromass

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    I'm a very harsh believer of nonviolence. I don't believe that we have the right to put somebody to death or to torture somebody. Sure, Breivik deserves to be tortured to death. But I think we should stand above those primitive feelings of hate and vengeance.

    I'm not even capable of hurting a fly (really, I always try to catch them and put them outside). Why should I want a human to die?

    Breivik should be locked away so that he doesn't provide harm to the rest of the people. He should never be allowed to be released. But that doesn't mean that he should die.

    I realize I'm not saying anything rational here. But I'm just saying how I emotionally think about the subject.
     
  9. Sep 3, 2011 #8

    Evo

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    Isn't the law about justice?
     
  10. Sep 3, 2011 #9

    Evo

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    I believe that the death penalty is not enough in such cases, but life in a condo isn't punishment either. So yes, I do believe that such people should be punished. The man that killed that girl in the OP should be punished *according to the crime*. Her life was worth a free breakfast?

    I have had people close to me brutally murdered for no reason, so I am probably more emotionally invested than most here.
     
  11. Sep 3, 2011 #10

    micromass

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    No, the law is about protecting the innocent. We shouldn't punish people out of vengeance/hate.

    That said, there is no justice in this world.
     
  12. Sep 3, 2011 #11

    micromass

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    Why would you want to punish them?? What effect will this punishment have? They won't change their mind. The victims don't get back what they lost. What good is punishment?
     
  13. Sep 3, 2011 #12

    arildno

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    He has to live with IKEA furniture, though..
     
  14. Sep 3, 2011 #13

    arildno

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    To inflict an act upon a criminal that would be criminal to inflict upon the non-criminal, but no longer is so towards the criminal because he, through his criminality, has stripped away some subset of his citizen rights.

    The only way to make such an inferior status of righthood apparent is by doing an action towards the criminal we generally call a punishment.
     
  15. Sep 3, 2011 #14

    arildno

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    As for Breivik, he was so calculating in his evil that he actually brought cans of gasoline to Utøya with the intent of setting on fire locations where possible youths might barricade themselves during his murder spree.

    And, he was of course right:
    One such barricaded cabin held 47 terrified youths.
    He has admitted it was his intent to set fire on this building, but he was apprehended by the police before he got around to do so.

    He ought to be executed, but he can't, best thing I hope for is that the other inmates kill him at some point.
     
  16. Sep 3, 2011 #15

    Evo

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    Penal system means punishment.

     
  17. Sep 3, 2011 #16

    micromass

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  18. Sep 3, 2011 #17

    arildno

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    No, it is not.
    The law is about treating everybody according to his or her rights.

    The criminals have FEWER rights than others, due to their criminality, and should be dealt with accordingly.
     
  19. Sep 3, 2011 #18

    rede96

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    Although I do have some very strong feelings about this, my original thought was not about justice per se or revenge for that matter. (It is probably much colder than that!)

    For cases beyond doubt I just don't see the point of expending valuable resources on keeping these people fed and sheltered. They have no place in our society at all and therefore should be removed permanently, with the least burden on the people who would otherwise fund a life's worth of prison and all the other costs typically associated once they are released.

    Obviously, I also see this as a guaranteed way of ensuring that they don't re offend.
    As for how we do it, I’m with Evo, the punishment should fit the crime. I don’t know if that is about justice or revenge or what, but I do think the victim's family have a right to decide.
     
  20. Sep 3, 2011 #19

    Pythagorean

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    I still find that a meaningless statement. If justice isn't just a euphemism for vengeance then I must not have the emotional or intellectual apparatus necessary to understand the difference. I've heard no reasonable argument for why justice is beneficial, but I will propose one:

    To reduce public unrest. But this is still basically saying that justice is a means to sate the thirst of vengeance in the masses. Otherwise you get people killing random people thinking they're Casey Anthony because they're so emotionally disturbed that there's no "justice" (i.e. sating of the thirst for vengeance).

    It appears to me that the judicial branch's current goal is to mitigate vengeance in a controlled way to reduce the apparent alternative: "street justice" (i.e., uncontrolled vengeance).

    The only people who actually have an effective approach to preventing crime are parents, teachers, and philanthropists who recognize how important childhood development is, not just for your own kids, but for your friend's and enemy's kids too.
     
  21. Sep 3, 2011 #20
    There have been innocent people freed from death row where the jury was just as 100% convinced about their guilt as you are about Breivik's.

    That's the only reason I need to vehemently oppose the death penalty. I'd rather keep every single murderer in jail for the rest of their lives than kill one innocent.
     
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