Shroedinger Variation- What do you think?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a variation of Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment, incorporating an additional observer and the implications of their knowledge on the wave function collapse. The scope includes conceptual exploration of quantum mechanics and the nature of observation in quantum systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario where an additional observer enters the room without the experimenter's knowledge, suggesting that this observer's future awareness could retroactively affect the wave function collapse.
  • Another participant suggests a simpler alternative by placing a TV camera in the box to record the events, questioning what the recording would show.
  • A third participant argues that the camera does not constitute a "real observer" and introduces the idea that the recording could become a static part of the system, raising the possibility of deleting the tape as a factor.
  • A later reply references Wigner's friend, indicating that decoherence occurs almost instantaneously, which may allow for measurements confirming the superposition state of the cat or the observer.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of observers and the implications of knowledge on quantum events. There is no consensus on the effects of the additional observer or the validity of using a recording device in this context.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the nature of observation, the definition of a "real observer," and the implications of retroactive knowledge on quantum mechanics, which remain unresolved.

IJovchevski
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Imagine the setup of the original Schrödinger's Cat; The cat is behind the wall, locked. I am adding another element to it, a person that will enter the room without the knowledge of the experimenter, and exit through another door and seal the place again.
So for the Observer unaware of this, the wave function proceeds as expected and collapses when he finds out whether the cat has survived or not. The element of future correction, when sometime in the future, he becomes aware of the second observer knowledge is very peculiar.So the wave function will have to travel in the past to re-collapse again, with the newly acquired knowledge.So if there is an absolute observer, he will have the power to present you will the knowledge after the event had happened and ultimately change the course of the experiment, regardless whether it happened in the past or not. So a God, an absolute observer ;can', but not necessarily will, if he chooses so, change the already observed quantum event. The only thing that a god will not be able to do is changing the event which directly include our free will as an input into a quantum system.
 
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A simple alternative. Place a TV camera in the wall of the box to record what is going on. What will show up on the recording?
 
I thought about it..but it's probably not the same. As it doesn't include real observer.
It only becomes static part of the system. Maybe useful if the other person deletes the tape:) Can someone come up with the maths behind this scenario?
 
This is really just http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wigner%27s_friend" .

What happen's is that the system is of such a nature that decoherence occurs almost instananously meaning that measurements can be made to confirm that the cat or the Wigner's friend is in a state of superpostion.
 
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