Solution to nonlinear ODE with radicals

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    Nonlinear Ode Radicals
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nonlinear ordinary differential equation (ODE) given by dy/dx =((sqrt((y-x)^2+y^2)-abs(y))/(y-x))*abs(y)/y. Participants explore various approaches to solving this equation, including variable separation and substitution methods, while also considering specific cases for y.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in solving the ODE and requests insight, mentioning attempts at variable separation and substitution with v(x)=y(x)/x.
  • Another participant suggests a specific solution of the form y = cx, indicating that c satisfies a quartic equation, with one root being 1, which can be discounted.
  • A subsequent reply questions the suggestion of solving the differential equation with respect to c and requests clarification on how c satisfies a quartic.
  • Further elaboration is provided, showing the derivation of c under the assumption that y > 0, leading to a quartic equation with a common factor corresponding to the indeterminate case y=x.
  • A participant reiterates the interest in a more general solution where y is not strictly linear, proposing that c could also be a function of x, and expresses difficulty in integrating the resulting equation.
  • Another participant acknowledges the request for a general solution while noting that the previously mentioned solutions provide insight into the overall behavior of the system and that other solutions cannot cross the line y = cx.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to solving the ODE. There are multiple competing views regarding the nature of the solutions, particularly between linear and more general forms.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations are noted, including the dependence on specific assumptions about the positivity of y and the indeterminate nature of the solution when y equals x. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical steps in deriving the general solution.

davikrehalt
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I am not too familiar with differential equations but am familiar with basic calculus, I came across this equation trying to describe a particular function:
dy/dx =((sqrt((y-x)^2+y^2)-abs(y))/(y-x))*abs(y)/y

Anyway I tried to separate the variables unsuccessfully and using v(x)=y(x)/x with no success, I really tried and couldn't solve it, so some insight would be appreciated. I tried restricting y to be positive, still without a breakthrough. Sorry if it's confusing, can't figure out the math format.
 
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There is a solution y = cx, if that helps. c satisfies a quartic. One of the roots is 1, but you can discount that, leaving a cubic. All the real roots of that are negative.
 
Are you suggesting that I try to solve the differential equation with respect to c? Could you elaborate a little since I fail to see c satisfying a quartic.
 
Suppose y > 0 in some domain:
dy/dx = (√((y-x)2+y2)-y)/(y-x)
Put y = cx:
c = (√((c-1)2+c2)-c)/(c-1)
c(c-1) + c = √((c-1)2+c2) = c2
(c-1)2+c2 = c4
(c-1)2 = c2(c2-1)
There's a common factor c-1. That root corresponds to y=x, which makes the original equation indeterminate. Otherwise:
(c-1) = c2(c+1)

OTOH, where y < 0:
dy/dx = -(√((y-x)2+y2)+y)/(y-x)
Put y = cx:
c = -(√((c-1)2+c2)+c)/(c-1)
c(c-1) - c = -√((c-1)2+c2) = c2 -2c
etc.
 
haruspex said:
Suppose y > 0 in some domain:
dy/dx = (√((y-x)2+y2)-y)/(y-x)
Put y = cx:
c = (√((c-1)2+c2)-c)/(c-1).

Thanks for the reply, but I was looking for a more general solution where y is not necessarily a linear function of x, perhaps where c would also be a function of x. It seems that your solution forces the y to be zero when x is zero. If c is a function of x then,

c+x*dc/dx =(√((c-1)2+c2)-c)/(c-1)
x*dc/dx=(√((c-1)2+c2)-c^2)/(c-1)
Then, I am quite at a loss trying to integrate and solve that for c
 
davikrehalt said:
Thanks for the reply, but I was looking for a more general solution where y is not necessarily a linear function of x,
Of course. I was merely pointing out one set of solutions. These should shed light on the overall behaviour. Other solutions cannot cross the line y = cx. Finding all the real roots for the two cases (y >/< 0) will carve up the plane into separate domains.
 

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