Solve Equation: $x^4+2x^3-x^2-6x-3=0$

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving the polynomial equation $x^4+2x^3-x^2-6x-3=0$. Participants explore various methods for finding solutions, including brute force approaches and algebraic manipulations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose brute force solutions without detailing the methods used.
  • One participant suggests dividing the polynomial by $x^2-x-1$, leading to a simpler quadratic expression $x^2+3x+3$.
  • Another participant presents a method involving substitution and manipulation of the original equation to derive a quadratic equation, noting that one of the resulting conditions leads to real solutions while the other does not.
  • There are repeated mentions of substituting variables and equations, with some participants expressing frustration over errors in their calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods for solving the equation, with no consensus on a single approach or solution. Multiple competing methods are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants' approaches depend on specific algebraic manipulations and substitutions, which may not be universally applicable or may require additional assumptions. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and potential errors in reasoning.

solakis1
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Solve the following equation:

$x^4+2x^3-x^2-6x-3=0$
 
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Brute force solution. :censored: 🥊
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The graph of the function $x^4 + 2x^3 - x^2 - 6x - 3$ shows that it has two real roots, approximately 1.62 and -0.62, with sum close to 1 and product close to -1.So it looks as though they might be the roots of the quadratic $x^2 - x - 1$. It is then easy to factorise the function as $$x^4 + 2x^3 - x^2 - 6x - 3 = (x^2 - x - 1)(x^2 + 3x + 3).$$ So the roots are $x = \frac12\bigl(1\pm\sqrt5\bigr)$ and $x = \frac12\bigl(-3\pm i\sqrt3\bigr)$.

That factorisation can be written as $$\begin{aligned}x^4 + 2x^3 - x^2 - 6x - 3 &= \bigl((x^2+x+1) - 2(x+1)\bigr)\bigl((x^2+x+1) + 2(x+1)\bigr)\\ &= (x^2+x+1)^2 - 4(x+1)^2.\end{aligned}$$ Maybe a more elegant solution could be found by approaching the problem from that direction, expressing $x^4 + 2x^3 - x^2 - 6x - 3$ as the difference of two squares?
 
Another brute force solution based on an educated guess.
Let's try to write it as $(x^2+ax+c)(x^2+bx+d)$.
We'll assume that $c$ and $d$ are integers, which means that $c=\pm 3$ and $d=\mp 1$ or vice versa. Due to symmetry, we can pick $c$ and $d$ as written without losing a solution.
So we have either $(x^2+ax+3)(x^2+bx-1)$ or $(x^2+ax-3)(x^2+bx+1)$.

For the first case, we have:
$$(x^2+ax+3)(x^2+bx-1)=x^4+(a+b)x^3+(3-1+ab)x^2+(-a+3b)x-3$$ which must be equal to $$x^4+2x^3-x^2-6x-3$$
It follows that:
$$\begin{cases}a+b=2 \\ 3-1+ab=-1 \\ -a+3b=-6 \end{cases} \implies \begin{cases} a=3 \\b=-1 \end{cases}$$
That means that we've found $(x^2+3x+3)(x^2-x-1)=0$. It also means that we don't have to analyze the other case, since this is good enough.

We can now solve it with the usual quadratic formula to find $x=\frac 12(-3\pm i{\sqrt 3})$ and $x=\frac 12(1\pm \sqrt 5)$.
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Another brute force solution based on an educated guess.
Let's try to write it as $(x^2+ax+c)(x^2+bx+d)$.
We'll assume that $c$ and $d$ are integers, which means that $c=\pm 3$ and $d=\mp 1$ or vice versa. Due to symmetry, we can pick $c$ and $d$ as written without losing a solution.
So we have either $(x^2+ax+3)(x^2+bx-1)$ or $(x^2+ax-3)(x^2+bx+1)$.

For the first case, we have:
$$(x^2+ax+3)(x^2+bx-1)=x^4+(a+b)x^3+(3-1+ab)x^2+(-a+3b)x-3$$ which must be equal to $$x^4+2x^3-x^2-6x-3$$
It follows that:
$$\begin{cases}a+b=2 \\ 3-1+ab=-1 \\ -a+3b=-6 \end{cases} \implies \begin{cases} a=3 \\b=-1 \end{cases}$$
That means that we've found $(x^2+3x+3)(x^2-x-1)=0$. It also means that we don't have to analyze the other case, since this is good enough.

We can now solve it with the usual quadratic formula to find $x=\frac 12(-3\pm i{\sqrt 3})$ and $x=\frac 12(1\pm \sqrt 5)$.
wait a minite if you substitute the 1st equation into the3rd don't you get b=2
 
You
Opalg said:
Brute force solution. :censored: 🥊
[DESMOS]{"version":7,"graph":{"viewport":{"xmin":-10,"ymin":-8.406231118816823,"xmax":10,"ymax":8.406231118816823}},"randomSeed":"fb3a103f1f6795c6aa824f4360e302c0","expressions":{"list":[{"type":"expression","id":"1","color":"#c74440","latex":"y=\\ x^{4}\\ +\\ 2x^{3}\\ -\\ x^{2}\\ -\\ 6x\\ -\\ 3"}]}}[/DESMOS]
The graph of the function $x^4 + 2x^3 - x^2 - 6x - 3$ shows that it has two real roots, approximately 1.62 and -0.62, with sum close to 1 and product close to -1.So it looks as though they might be the roots of the quadratic $x^2 - x - 1$. It is then easy to factorise the function as $$x^4 + 2x^3 - x^2 - 6x - 3 = (x^2 - x - 1)(x^2 + 3x + 3).$$ So the roots are $x = \frac12\bigl(1\pm\sqrt5\bigr)$ and $x = \frac12\bigl(-3\pm i\sqrt3\bigr)$.

That factorisation can be written as $$\begin{aligned}x^4 + 2x^3 - x^2 - 6x - 3 &= \bigl((x^2+x+1) - 2(x+1)\bigr)\bigl((x^2+x+1) + 2(x+1)\bigr)\\ &= (x^2+x+1)^2 - 4(x+1)^2.\end{aligned}$$ Maybe a more elegant solution could be found by approaching the problem from that direction, expressing $x^4 + 2x^3 - x^2 - 6x - 3$ as the difference of two squares?
And if you divide $x^4+2x^3-x^2-6x-3$ by $x^2-x-1 $ the result will be $x^2+3x+3 $
And you do not need that brutal factorization;)
 
solakis said:
Solve the following equation:

$x^4+2x^3-x^2-6x-3=0$
AN easy solution:

$x^4+2x^3-x^2-6x-3=x^4+2x^3+2x^2-3x^2-6x-3=x^4+2x^2(x+1)-3(x+1)^2=
(\frac{x^2}{x+1)})^2+2\frac{x^2}{x+1}-3=0$
devide by $(x+1)^2$
The solutions of this quadratic equation are:
because if you put $y=\frac{x^2}{x+1}$ you get the quadratic equation $y^2+2y-3=0$

$\frac{x^2}{x+1}=1$ .............1
or
$\frac{x^2}{x+1}=-3$.............2

(1) gives the wanted solution
(2) gives no real solutions
Note : $x+1\neq 0$

sorry spoiler does not work
 
Last edited:
solakis said:
wait a minite if you substitute the 1st equation into the3rd don't you get b=2
If we add $a+b=2$ and $-a+3b=-6$ together, we get $4b=-4 \implies b=-1$.
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
If we add $a+b=2$ and $-a+3b=-6$ together, we get $4b=-4 \implies b=-1$.
My GOD i did this stupid substitution 3 times:mad:
 

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