Solve ODE: Break into System of ODEs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the possibility of breaking a single second-order ordinary differential equation (ODE) into a system of first-order ODEs. The equation in question involves two independent variables, specifically focusing on the variables $\theta$ and $x$. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical explanation related to ODEs.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Mathematical reasoning, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the feasibility of breaking the given second-order ODE into a system of first-order ODEs, noting the unusual nature of having a single equation with two dependent variables.
  • One participant suggests a method to define new variables ($x_1$, $x_2$, $y_1$, $y_2$) to facilitate the transformation, but acknowledges the absence of $x$ in the original ODE.
  • Another participant points out that the term $\dot{x}\dot{\theta} + \ddot{x}\theta$ can be expressed as a total derivative, leading to an integrated form that still presents the challenge of having two dependent variables with only one equation.
  • A later reply raises the question of whether additional information, such as the positivity of acceleration and velocity, could provide enough context to further analyze the system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the ability to fully break down the ODE into a system without additional information. There is no consensus on how to proceed beyond the initial integration.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the number of equations versus the number of dependent variables, as well as the assumptions regarding the constants involved in the ODE.

Dustinsfl
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Is there a way to break this up into a system of ODEs?
$$
L\ddot{\theta} + \dot{x}\dot{\theta} + \ddot{x}\theta = 0
$$
 
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It's a little unusual that you have a single second-order ODE in two independent variables, but you could just do this:
\begin{align*}
x_{1}&=x \\
x_{2}&= \dot{x} \\
y_{1}&= \theta \\
y_{2}&= \dot{ \theta} \\
0&=L \dot{y}_{2}+x_{2} y_{2}+ \dot{x}_{2} y_{1}.
\end{align*}

There is no $x$ in the original ODE, so you could theoretically integrate that once immediately by essentially leaving out the first equation.
 
dwsmith said:
Is there a way to break this up into a system of ODEs?
$$
L\ddot{\theta} + \dot{x}\dot{\theta} + \ddot{x}\theta = 0
$$
Notice that $\dot{x}\dot{\theta} + \ddot{x}\theta = \frac d{dt}(\dot{x}\theta)$, so (assuming that $L$ is a constant) the equation can be written $\frac d{dt}(L\dot{\theta} +\dot{x}\theta) = 0$. You can integrate this once, to get $L\dot{\theta} +\dot{x}\theta = $ const. But you still have the situation of two dependent variables and only one equation, so I don't see how you can go beyond there without further information.
 
Opalg said:
Notice that $\dot{x}\dot{\theta} + \ddot{x}\theta = \frac d{dt}(\dot{x}\theta)$, so (assuming that $L$ is a constant) the equation can be written $\frac d{dt}(L\dot{\theta} +\dot{x}\theta) = 0$. You can integrate this once, to get $L\dot{\theta} +\dot{x}\theta = $ const. But you still have the situation of two dependent variables and only one equation, so I don't see how you can go beyond there without further information.

I know that acceleration is positive and constant and velocity is positive. Does that offer enough information?
 

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