Solving D.E Word Problem: Radium Decompose, Half Life 1600, 200 Years

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter bergausstein
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Word problem
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a differential equation related to the decay of radium, specifically focusing on its half-life of 1600 years and determining the percentage of radium remaining after 200 years. Participants explore mathematical modeling, exponential decay, and the implications of initial conditions in the context of this problem.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that radium decomposes at a rate proportional to its amount and seeks help in solving for the percentage remaining after 200 years.
  • Another participant proposes a mathematical model for the mass of radium over time, suggesting the use of an initial value problem.
  • Several participants derive the decay constant \( k \) using the relationship between half-life and exponential decay, with some expressing uncertainty about the calculations.
  • There is a discussion about whether to use decimal approximations or to keep the function in exact form, with differing opinions on the clarity of each approach.
  • Some participants emphasize that the initial amount of radium is not necessary to find the percentage remaining after a given time, while others question how to proceed without it.
  • One participant identifies a potential error in the initial model regarding the negative sign in the exponent and discusses the implications of this on the decay function.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the exponential nature of the decay process but express differing views on the details of the calculations and the necessity of knowing the initial amount. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to present the results and the implications of the initial model.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of correctly applying logarithmic transformations and maintaining clarity in the mathematical expressions. There are unresolved questions about the appropriateness of approximations versus exact forms in the context of the decay model.

bergausstein
Messages
191
Reaction score
0
1. radium decompose at the rate proportional to the amount itself. if the half life is 1600, find the percentage remaining after at the end of 200 years.

can you me go about solving this. thanks!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Let $R(t)$ be the mass of radium in a given sample at time $t$. How can we mathematically state how this mass changes with time in general? Just look at the first sentence and use that to try to model this change with an initial value problem.
 
$R(t)=R_oe^{kt}$ where $k<0$

now the half-life is 1600 so,

$1600=3200e^{kt}$

now how wil I solve for the rate of decline here? please help!
 
bergausstein said:
$R(t)=R_oe^{kt}$ where $k<0$

now the half-life is 1600 so,

$1600=3200e^{kt}$

now how wil I solve for the rate of decline here? please help!

You have the correct equation for the mass of a sample, but the half-life being 1600 years means that at time t=1600 then $R(t)=\dfrac{1}{2}R_0$. That is (I like to always use a positive constant):

$$R(1600)=R_0e^{-1600k}=\frac{1}{2}R_0$$

Divide through by $$R_0$$ and the convert from exponential to logarithmic form to solve for $k$. Another way to look at it is:

$$R(t)=R_02^{-\frac{t}{1600}}$$

And then to find the percentage remaining after $t$ years, use:

$$\frac{100R(t)}{R_0}=100\cdot2^{-\frac{t}{1600}}$$
 
from here solving for k

$\displaystyle R(1600)=R_0e^{-1600k}=\frac{1}{2}R_0$

dividing both sides by $R_o$

$\displaystyle e^{-1600k}=\frac{1}{2}$

taking the $\ln$ of both sides

$-1600k=\ln\frac{1}{2}$

dividing both sides by -1600

$\displaystyle k=-\frac{-\ln2}{1600}$ or $k=0.0004332$

now

$\displaystyle R(t)=R_0e^{-(0.0004332)t}$

how can I find the initial $R_o$?
 
Last edited:
You don't need to know the initial amount, you need to know what percentage of the initial amount remains after 200 years.
 
MarkFL said:
You don't need to know the initial amount, you need to know what percentage of the initial amount remains after 200 years.

how can I do that if there's no given initial amount? can you tell how to go about it?
 
bergausstein said:
from here solving for k

$\displaystyle R(1600)=R_0e^{-1600k}=\frac{1}{2}R_0$

dividing both sides by $R_o$

$\displaystyle e^{-1600k}=\frac{1}{2}$

taking the $\ln$ of both sides

$-1600k=\ln\frac{1}{2}$

dividing both sides by -1600

$\displaystyle k=-\frac{-\ln2}{1600}$ or $k=0.0004332$

now

$\displaystyle R(t)=R_0e^{-(0.0004332)t}$

how can I find the initial $R_o$?

Do you think it's a good idea to give a decimal approximation when the function simplifies greatly if kept exact?

\displaystyle \begin{align*} k &amp;= \frac{1}{1600} \ln{ (2) } \end{align*}

and so

\displaystyle \begin{align*} R(t) &amp;= R_0 \exp { \left[ \frac{t}{1600} \ln{(2)} \right] } \\ &amp;= R_0 \exp{ \left[ \ln{ \left( 2 ^{ \frac{t}{1600} } \right) } \right] } \\ &amp;= R_0 \cdot 2^{ \frac{t}{1600} } \end{align*}

and so after 200 years, what proportion of the initial amount do you have?
 
bergausstein said:
how can I do that if there's no given initial amount? can you tell how to go about it?

This is what I posted before:

MarkFL said:
...to find the percentage remaining after $t$ years, use:

$$\frac{100R(t)}{R_0}$$
 
  • #10
$\displaystyle \frac{100R(200)}{R_0}=100\cdot2^{\frac{200}{1600}}$

do you mean like this? how can I find the percentage of remaining here?
 
  • #11
bergausstein said:
$\displaystyle \frac{100R(200)}{R_0}=100\cdot2^{\frac{200}{1600}}$

do you mean like this? how can I find the percentage of remaining here?

Reduce the exponent, and then that is the exact percentage remaining, and then you can use a calculator to obtain a decimal approximation if you like.
 
  • #12
It appears there was something wrong with your initial model.

You know that your model involves exponential decay, so after each unit of time passes, there is a certain constant amount multiplying through. In other words

\displaystyle \begin{align*} R_1 &amp;= C\,R_0 \\ R_2 &amp;= C^2\,R_0 \\ R_3 &amp;= C^3\,R_0 \\ \vdots \\ R_t &amp;= C^t\,R_0 \end{align*}

Since you know that when \displaystyle \begin{align*} t = 1600, R_{1600} = \frac{1}{2}R_0 \end{align*}, that means

\displaystyle \begin{align*} \frac{1}{2}R_0 &amp;= C^{1600}\,R_0 \\ \frac{1}{2} &amp;= C^{1600} \\ \ln{ \left( \frac{1}{2} \right) } &amp;= \ln{ \left( C^{1600} \right) } \\ \ln{ \left( \frac{1}{2} \right) } &amp;= 1600 \ln{(C)} \\ \frac{1}{1600} \ln{ \left( \frac{1}{2} \right) } &amp;= \ln{(C)} \\ \ln{ \left[ \left( \frac{1}{2} \right) ^{\frac{1}{1600}} \right] } &amp;= \ln{(C)} \\ \left( \frac{1}{2} \right) ^{ \frac{1}{1600} } &amp;= C \\ 2^{ -\frac{1}{1600}} &amp;= C \end{align*}

and thus your model is \displaystyle \begin{align*} R(t) = \left( 2^{-\frac{1}{1600}} \right) ^t \, R_0 = 2^{-\frac{t}{1600}}\,R_0 \end{align*}.

Now if \displaystyle \begin{align*} t = 200 \end{align*}, that gives

\displaystyle \begin{align*} R(200) &amp;= 2^{-\frac{200}{1600}}\,R_0 \\ &amp;= 2^{-\frac{1}{8}}\,R_0 \\ &amp;\approx 0.917 \, R_0 \end{align*}

So what percentage of the original amount do you have?
 
  • #13
Prove It said:
It appears there was something wrong with your initial model.

Yeah, I missed the dropped negative sign in the exponent.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
14K