Solving the Schrodinger equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the complexities of solving the Schrödinger equation, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore the challenges of obtaining solutions, the implications of reduced formulations, and the relationship between theory and experimental findings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the use of the term "inherent" in the context of difficulties in solving the Schrödinger equation.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on what constitutes complete and incomplete versions of the Schrödinger equation.
  • There is a request for an explanation of what is meant by "reduced formulations" and how they are derived.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the statement about parallel strands in the study of electronic properties and its significance.
  • Questions arise about the necessity for new fundamental concepts to align with existing theoretical frameworks.
  • One participant challenges the idea that a self-consistent theory can make predictions that contradict itself, suggesting that such predictions may occur outside the theory's domain of validity.
  • Another participant notes that many quantum mechanics problems are not exactly solvable, leading to the use of approximation methods.
  • There is a mention of specific solvable problems in quantum mechanics, such as the particle in a box and the hydrogen atom, before transitioning to approximation schemes like perturbation theory.
  • A later reply discusses general relativity as an example of a self-consistent theory that predicts phenomena without providing explanations, indicating boundaries of validity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement regarding the complexities of the Schrödinger equation and the nature of quantum mechanics. Some points remain contested, particularly around the implications of self-consistency in theories and the relationship between theory and experimental observations.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions underlying the Schrödinger equation and the definitions of terms like "reduced formulations." The scope of the discussion is primarily focused on theoretical aspects without delving into specific mathematical derivations.

spaghetti3451
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This extract is from my college notes.

"Because of the inherent difficulty of obtaining even grossly approximate solutions of the complete Schrödinger equation, one typically focuses on reduced formulations that are believed to capture the essential features of the problem of interest. This has resulted in a number of parallel strands in the study of the electronic properties of solids and is, in large part, responsible for the richness of the subject as a whole. Experiments are constantly discovering new phenomena that either must be accommodated within the existing theoretical framework, or provide the basis for expanding this framework by introducing new fundamental concepts. Theory, in turn, makes predictions that challenge existing concepts and which must be tested by experiments."


inherent: Why has this word been used?

complete: Wat are the incomplete and the complete versions?

reduced formulations: Reduced? How?

This has resulted in a number of parallel strands in the study of the electronic properties of solids and is, in large part, responsible for the richness of the subject as a whole.:
I don't understand.

for expanding this framework by introducing new fundamental concepts: And why should the new fundamntal concepts fit into (be consistent with) the old theroetical framework?

Theory makes predictions that challenge existing concepts: How can a self-consistent theory make predictions that challenge the theory?

Finally, I don't see any connection between the first two and the last two sentences.

Anyone that helps I thank.
 
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The complete Schrödinger equation for a system of merely two particles, in Cartesian coordinates, is

[tex]- \frac{\hbar^2}{2m_1}<br /> \left( {\frac{\partial^2 \Psi}{\partial x_1^2} + \frac{\partial^2 \Psi}{\partial y_1^2} + \frac{\partial^2 \Psi}{\partial z_1^2} \right) <br /> - \frac{\hbar^2}{2m_2}<br /> \left( {\frac{\partial^2 \Psi}{\partial x_2^2} + \frac{\partial^2 \Psi}{\partial y_2^2} + \frac{\partial^2 \Psi}{\partial z_2^2} \right)<br /> + V(x_1, y_1, z_1, x_2, y_2, z_2, t) \Psi = -i \hbar \frac{\partial \Psi}{\partial t}[/tex]

where

[tex]\Psi = \Psi(x_1, y_1, z_1, x_2, y_2, z_2, t)[/tex]

For systems with more particles, extend the equation correspondingly with more variables and terms. The key is that psi is a function of 3N+1 variables, where N is the number of particles in the system. To make any headway in solving this, you need to make simplifying assumptions that reduce the number of variables that you have to deal with.
 
failexam, I agree. Whoever wrote that passage must be getting paid by the word.
 
This is probably oversimplifying what you asked, but I think part of the problem is that there are not a lot of exactly solvable problems in Quantum Mechanics. In other words, we don't know how to solve the equations describing the physics, without resorting to approximate methods.

In most QM texts you solve unrealistic problems like the particle in the box, that are solvable. Then you might do the free particle (which in purest terms is also unrealistic) and the hydrogen atom. But, very quickly you go into time-dependent and time-independent perturbation theory, which are "approximation schemes".

failexam said:
Theory makes predictions that challenge existing concepts: How can a self-consistent theory make predictions that challenge the theory?

I think the trick is self-consistent within its domain of validity.

GR is a good example. It, more or less, predicts singularities. In other words, it predicts a phenomenon it offers no explanation for.

This happens because it is going outside the domain where the theory is valid.

A self-consistent theory can make its boundaries of validity very evident in this way.
 
Thnaks for helping.

Bill_K said:
failexam, I agree. Whoever wrote that passage must be getting paid by the word.

Why should he be getting paid by the word?
 

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