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Somerset Hoard: ~52000 Roman Coins

  1. Jul 8, 2010 #1

    Astronuc

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    UK treasure hunter finds 52,000 Roman coins
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100708/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_roman_coins [Broken]

    Last year, a hoard of Anglo-Saxon coins and jewelry was discovered in Staffordshire, England. The so-called Stafforshire Hoard included more than 1,500 objects, mostly made from gold.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
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  3. Jul 8, 2010 #2

    arildno

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    Fantastic!

    Perhaps placed there by a sub-commander of Carausius providing a nest egg for himself, hoping to weather the wrath of Diocletian?
     
  4. Jul 8, 2010 #3

    Astronuc

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    It is nice that the finder did not retrieve the pot immediately, but went to authorities who arranged for archeologists to carefully excavate the location - at least that's what I gleened from the article. It will be interesting to see what else is found in the area.

    I think it's rather interesting timing of this and Evo's thread on the Arthurian legend.

    I'd like to explore more the transition from Roman England to Anglo Saxon England.

    I'm particularly interested in the history and kings of Wessex.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_of_Wessex
     
  5. Jul 8, 2010 #4

    arildno

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    In that case, you should practise your German (or Anglo-Saxon) on Felix Liebermann's monumental work "Die Gesetze der Angelsachsen", a variorum text of all known law texts (and their variants) from the early 7th century and onwards.
    Including of course, the laws of Ine&Alfred of Wessex.

    Lots of info here, if you can stomach it.

    Here is the first volume, just 754 pages, best regards from archive.org! :smile:
    http://www.archive.org/details/diegesetzederang01liebuoft

    (PS: Since Liebermann's collection contains the ORIGINAL texts in anglo-saxon&latin, his work is still the standard bible for professional historians within the study of anglosaxon law, a century after his compilation&analysis)


    An interesting line of research, I would think, would be to study similarities/heritages in the transition from Romano-celtic to germanic laws.

    Another point:
    I assume you have read De Excidio by Gildas, Astronuc?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2010
  6. Jul 9, 2010 #5

    Evo

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    Arildno, your wealth of knowledge of history amazes me. :!!) I used to love it when you and marcus would share some of that knowledge with me. The Heimskringla thread opened up a new world for me. I have spent countless hours reading great sagas thanks to you two.
     
  7. Jul 9, 2010 #6

    arildno

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    I hope I will oblige in the future as well..:shy:
     
  8. Jul 10, 2010 #7
    I so agree Evo, its interesting to discover tid-bits of history. I also lost more then a few hours reading in the Heimskringla thread. So many reasons to love PF.

    And bravo to Dave Crisp, he did everything right.
     
  9. Jul 10, 2010 #8

    Astronuc

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    Thanks for the link to diegesetzederang01liebuoft. I downloaded the pdf.

    I've read bits and pieces of De Excidio. I struggle with the language of Gildas, just as I struggle with Bede or Gibbon. For me their writing to too verbose and full of ancillary detail, which is mostly anecdotal and most likely fictional.

    I rely on modern scholars to sift through the chaff and stalks and separate out the kernels of history.
     
  10. Jul 10, 2010 #9

    arildno

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    As you've probably noticed, if you read it in book format, the double page contains a single column of German translation at the extreme end of right page, whereas the corresponding columns on the left&right contains the Anglo-saxon variants.
    Unfortunately, Latin was de rigeur for scholars in Liebermann's day, so from around William the Conqueror and onwards (up to henry the first, I think), German is dispensed with...:frown:
    And repetitious...

    That's their claim for a justified existence, isn't it? :wink:
     
  11. Jul 10, 2010 #10

    Astronuc

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    I share your :frown:. I'm actually more interested in the German and the evolution of the language. Unfortunately, there weren't a lot of German scholars, and obviously because Latin was the scholarly language, most of the literature is in Latin.

    Yeah - very wordy and repetitious. :yuck:

    I appreciate their effort.
     
  12. Jul 10, 2010 #11

    arildno

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    There is a lot of information in the Anglo-Saxon laws, some of them extremely surprising.
    The very first of the law collections, that of Aethelbaert of Kent (issued around 601-604AD) is by nominally Christian ruler, but betrays very little dependence on, say, canon law or Roman law.

    The so-called "divorce laws" of Aethelberth, that also stipulates the widow's share of her late husband's fortune, show an appreciation of the female that might come as a surprise.
    In German, they read:

    "78. Wenn sie lebende Nachkommenschaft gebiert,
    erhalte sie das halbe Vermögen [des Haushalts] , wenn
    [ihr] Mann vor [ihr] stirbt.

    79. Wenn sie mit [ihrer beider] Kindern ausscheiden
    will [aus dem Haushalte] , erhalte sie das halbe
    Vermögen [des Haushalts].

    80. Wenn der Ehemann [die Kinder i] behalten
    will, [werde sie bedacht] wie Ein Kind[estheil].

    81. Wenn sie Nachkommenschaft nicht gebiert,
    erhalten [bei Auflösung der Ehe ihre ] Vatersippen
    [das] Gut [der Frau] und [die vom Manne ihr bei der
    Hochzeit gegebene] Morgengabe.
    "

    In my translation, this would be:
    "78. If she births live children, she is to have half the estate if her husband dies before her"
    (Whether this is granted to the maintenance of only post-mortem born children, or an award for having birthed children in general would be a source of contention between historians)

    "79. If she wish to leave the household with both her children, she is to gain half the property"
    (Again, it is unclear whether this regards a divorce from her husband (that would make it an extremely generous divorce law), or if she has the option after her husband's death to leave her husband's familial estate (presumably going back to her own), and receive the maintenance that is to provision under-age children)

    "80. When the husband will keep the children, she gains a portion equal to a child's inheritance"
    (This is clearly a divorce law settlement; that the woman was given a share of her husband's estate equal to that of a child is reminiscent of the widow's law of Germanic peoples like the visigoths who, indeed, stipulated this as the proper widow's portion)

    "81. If the marriage did not produce any children, she (or, rather, her family) is given back her estates (upon dissolution of the marrige), along with the morning gift given to her at the wedding"
     
  13. Jul 10, 2010 #12

    Astronuc

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  14. Jul 10, 2010 #13

    arildno

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    Halsall at Fordham is a great source for many aspects of history.
    This is the page of for the Anglo-Saxon dooms:
    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/560-975dooms.html#The%20Laws%20of%20%C6thelberht

    Liebermann contains the complete dooms or lawbooks, whereas Fordham presents a judicious selection in modernized English.

    The introuction page to Paul Halsall's "Internet History Source books project" can be found here:
    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/
     
  15. Jul 10, 2010 #14

    Astronuc

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    Fordham also has the text of Gildas
    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/gildas-full.html

    I'd like to find more information on the areas of Elmet, Deira and Mercia. My ancestors are from Elmet, or the borders among Northumbria, Mercia and Deira.

    There have been occasional finds of Roman coins in the area.
     
  16. Jul 10, 2010 #15

    arildno

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  17. Jul 10, 2010 #16

    Astronuc

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  18. Jul 10, 2010 #17

    arildno

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    That would be Geoffrey of Monmouth's (largely mythical) genealogical tree, I think.

    As to Mercia, Kerslakes 1879 booklet "Vestiges of the supremacy of Mercia" (about 70 pages) is freely downloadable here:
    http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924031417110#page/n3/mode/2up
     
  19. Jul 10, 2010 #18

    Astronuc

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    From one of my ancestral towns:

    Thanks Arild, I also found it here - http://www2.glos.ac.uk/bgas/tbgas/v003/bg003106.pdf

    Check this out! - http://www.bgas.org.uk/tbgas/bgc001.htm [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  20. Jul 10, 2010 #19

    Astronuc

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    Speaking of hoards of Roman coins in the UK,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silsden_Hoard

    Well, it's not much of a hoard, but
    http://www.bradfordmuseums.org/minitours/html/coins.html [Broken] (Don't know if link works, but one can find it through the museum site - http://www.bradfordmuseums.org/minitours/index.htm [Broken])

    Apparently the Silsden Hoard in on permanent loan to the Cliffe Castle Museum in Keighley.
     
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  21. Jul 10, 2010 #20

    arildno

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    Interesting, thanks!

    I knew that "Cymbeline" was one of the client kings of Rome prior to the Claudian invasion (he's mentioned as such in Tacitus), but I was unaware that we had coins from his as well.

    There was a massive influx of gold in the Roman economy by Julius Caesar's conquest of Gaul, and the probably equally bloody pacification campaigns Agrippa led in Gaul a generation after that (Agrippa was Octavian's second-in-command, and son-in-law).

    I would think a crucial Roman policy in order to finally secure Gaul would be to close off Britain as a safe haven for rebels, so Agrippa must have used large resources to buy solid allies in southern Britain (the generation just before Cymbeline, or so).
    Control of the southern gold mines in Gaul gave him just that...
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2010
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