Spencer Bachus and his 17 Socialists

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LowlyPion
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Main Question or Discussion Point

Bachus tells city and county officials he's worried about socialists in Congress

... Asked to clarify his comments after the breakfast speech at the Trussville Civic Center, Bachus said 17 members of the U.S. House are socialists.
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/04/bachus_tells_city_and_county_o.html

OK. So who are they? I want the names. Let's convene a House Special Select Committee to investigate this disturbing allegation.

And why 17? Why not more? Or are there less? Or is 17 just a prime number that sounds good?
 

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  • #2
russ_watters
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There's an awful lot more than just 17 in Congress and it concerns me too, but yeah, it is a bit odd that he'd say it that way.
 
  • #3
Ivan Seeking
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Who are they Russ? Please cite names and evidence; or should we consider it just more crackpottery?
 
  • #4
Ivan Seeking
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http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2009/04/bachus_tells_city_and_county_o.html

OK. So who are they? I want the names. Let's convene a House Special Select Committee to investigate this disturbing allegation.

And why 17? Why not more? Or are there less? Or is 17 just a prime number that sounds good?
A real shocker to see Republicans stoop to McCarthy-style tactics, eh?

That is right up there with R Minn Rep Michele Bachmann's claim that children are going to be forced into philosophy "re-education camps" by Obama. [Obviously she is referring to the notion of public service as a means of paying for a college education...you know, like we've always done with the military. Yes, frightful stuff. Clearly Marx is behind this]

I mean really, this is blatent McCarthyism.

Obama hasn't even been in office 100 days yet! What a bunch of paranoid fanatics.
 
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  • #5
russ_watters
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A real shocker to see Republicans stoop to McCarthy-style tactics, eh?
Actually, the link and quote don't mention McCarthy-style tactics, it is just the OP that is suggesting it. The conspiracy theory is being generated in the thread by the OP.
Obama hasn't even been in office 100 days yet! What a bunch of paranoid fanatics.
Agreed. I had hoped that Obama's win would make them happy and soften the rhetoric, but it apparently hasn't.
 
  • #6
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Here's one.

185px-Bernie_Sanders.jpg


LowlyPion said:
Let's convene a House Special Select Committee to investigate this disturbing allegation.
Please refrain from straw men. You've made a huge leap from "opposing/being worried about socialism" to "setting up McCarthyist witch hunt tribunals".
 
  • #7
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Semantics, semantics... We have many socialist parties in Europe. Why should you worry about socialists ? By analogy ?
 
  • #8
russ_watters
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Semantics, semantics... We have many socialist parties in Europe. Why should you worry about socialists ? By analogy ?
Yes, that's the point. The US has a history with McCarthyism that Europe doesn't share and citing the number makes one think of that history (not sure if you were aware of that, so I wanted to clarify). But socialism and communism are not the same. You can't be partially communist, it is all or nothing. Socialism, on the other hand, is a set of policies that are widespread in all western countries. We have a lot in the US and virtuallly all people have some socialism in their political stance (including me). I tend to label someone based on their predominant ideology, so while I have some socialist ideas, I am predominantly a capitalist, so I call myself a capitalist. Many liberals in government today have predominantly socialistic ideologies and as a result, I label them socialist.

To me, it seems like democrats have a lot more of an issue with labels than republicans*. Perhaps that is due to successful Republican campaigning, I don't know, but back in the '80s, "liberal" was practically a dirty word. Saturday Night Live did a funny running gag about it (Run liberal, run!). Both "liberal" and "socialist" are real ideologies that people hold, but due to a perceived negative connotation, people in those camps tend to reject them. This is why we have seen growth of the word "progressive" lately. But "progressive" is actually further left on the political spectrum than just "liberal" and has a higher mix of socialism.
 
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  • #9
To bad there's only 17, we could use some good old fashioned socialism.

The fact that medical care isn't tax-supported for everyone yet is disturbing. Especially since preventive care can greatly reduce the amount of emergency care (that those without insurance will not be able to pay, causing this cost to go on to others) necessary to keep a healthy and living populace.
 
  • #10
LowlyPion
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Here's one.

Please refrain from straw men. You've made a huge leap from "opposing/being worried about socialism" to "setting up McCarthyist witch hunt tribunals".
Look who's throwing out straw men.

Bernie Sanders is a Senator, not a Member of the House of Representatives.

If Spencer Bacchus has 17 names, he says he has 17 names, then who are they? Or is he lying?
 
  • #11
Woody101
To bad there's only 17, we could use some good old fashioned socialism.

The fact that medical care isn't tax-supported for everyone yet is disturbing. Especially since preventive care can greatly reduce the amount of emergency care (that those without insurance will not be able to pay, causing this cost to go on to others) necessary to keep a healthy and living populace.
As Margaret Thatcher said "The problem with Socialism is eventually you run out of other poeples money to spend"

If you want a list of the socialists in the House, here is one to start with the Speaker "Nancy Baby"
 
  • #12
LowlyPion
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As Margaret Thatcher said "The problem with Socialism is eventually you run out of other poeples money to spend"

If you want a list of the socialists in the House, here is one to start with the Speaker "Nancy Baby"
I hope you aren't confusing compassionate and effective governance with socialism.
 
  • #13
MATLABdude
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That is right up there with R Minn Rep Michele Bachmann's claim that children are going to be forced into philosophy "re-education camps" by Obama. [Obviously she is referring to the notion of public service as a means of paying for a college education...you know, like we've always done with the military. Yes, frightful stuff. Clearly Marx is behind this]...
Wasn't she the same person that claimed that many of the people in congress / the senate were anti-american, and should be investigated? The implication was that now-President Obama was one of them (which she then partially recanted). I think the only thing missing now is for a convert to come and reveal all of them before congress / the senate (a la Reagan). Though to what ends, or what this particular faction would actually do is an interesting question (charge the named for sedition? make new laws for anti-americanism? just use plain old treason? and just how would they convince the democrats and non-crazies to vote for this?)

Hah, and apparently there's a clip of her floating out there wherein she may or may not be telling people (or at least Minnesotans) to be ready for an armed insurrection (her office quickly clarified that it was meant metaphorically)!
http://wonkette.com/407198/michele-bachmann-calls-for-armed-revolution
 
  • #14
Woody101
I hope you aren't confusing compassionate and effective governance with socialism.
The liberal socialist party has had control of congress for several years, tell me please what they have accomplished if they are so effective. They refused to listen to warnings that Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac were out of control and in trouble. Their approval rating was lower than Bush's and they accomplished nothing. That is effective?

Giving better of benefits to people who violated our laws by entering this country illegally than afforded law abiding citizens I guess can be called compassionate.

Now they want to ram a mandatory health care program run by the government down our throats that is socialism. If you want to see what a government run health care program is like take a look at Medicare. If you want to see an efficient government agency look at FEMA, Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac.

It is said that if you are young and not liberal you don't have a heart, if you are old and not conservative you don't have a brain.
 
  • #15
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It is said that if you are young and not liberal you don't have a heart, if you are old and not conservative you don't have a brain.
And you don't know who said that first ?
Not to be a Republican at 20 is proof of want of heart; to be one at 30 is proof of want of head.
 
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  • #16
jtbell
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but back in the '80s, "liberal" was practically a dirty word.
It still is, at least down here in the South. If I had a nickel for every TV commercial I saw last fall that prominently labeled the opponent as a "liberal," I could retire right now. Calling someone a "socialist" is an invitation to a lawsuit. Calling someone a "communist" means pistols at dawn. :rolleyes:
 
  • #17
LowlyPion
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The liberal socialist party has had control of congress for several years, tell me please what they have accomplished if they are so effective.
Actually I only see the Democrats held a slight majority. There is no Liberal Socialist Party. Since the Democrats haven't had the cooperation of the Executive Branch that apparently undercut regulation and enforcement for 8 years, while squandering what once was a vibrant expansive economy running surpluses, they have been pretty much hamstrung by the Executive Branch lack of cooperation and obstructionism.

But now that the mask has been ripped from the facade of the previous administration, and the new Executive Branch seems more in tune now, it looks like they are beginning to hit their stride, and perhaps we can get on with the necessary reforms to health care, and infrastructure and scale back on these ill-advised foreign adventures.
 
  • #18
russ_watters
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It still is, at least down here in the South. If I had a nickel for every TV commercial I saw last fall that prominently labeled the opponent as a "liberal," I could retire right now.
That's not exactly what I meant. It is an odd thing to me that it is somehow seen as an insult to call a "liberal" a "liberal", while it isn't seen as an insult to call a "conservative" a "conservative". But it exists and liberals are essentially rebranding themselves with the much more emotionally pleasing word "progressive". I'll have to find some, but there have been studies done about the media and word usage and they consistently use the word "conservative" more than the word "liberal". I used to think that that was strictly a manifestation of the liberal bias in the media, but with the rise of the word "progressive", it is now at least partially part of the rebranding of the democratic party.

[edit] Here's one:
SEARCHES of the ProQuest full-text CD-ROM listings reveal that between January 1994 and March 1995, the New York Times had 289 articles that applied the word ''activist'' to liberals, liberal causes, or the Left. Only 65 applied it to conservatives or conservative causes. This is a ratio of 4.4 to 1. The term ''extremist'' was used by the same source in only 25 articles referring to liberalism, but in 78 articles referring to conservatism, a 3 to 1 ratio.

The table on the next page contains the results of a search of the Lexis/Nexis newspaper database of about 170 publications. The figures show the phrases ''conservative attack'' and ''conservative criticism'' occurring 4.2 times more often than ''liberal attack'' and ''liberal criticism.'' Similarly, ''Republican attack'' and ''Republican criticism'' occurred 2.9 times more often than ''Democratic attack'' and ''Democratic criticism.''

The prefix ''arch,'' applied to people, is generally unfavorable. ''Arch-traitor'' and ''arch-villain'' are fairly common expressions, but not ''arch-patriot'' or ''arch-hero.'' Such terms as ''arch-enemy'' or ''arch-nemesis'' are commonly used, but not ''arch-friend'' or ''arch-ally.'' The table shows that the print media used the terms ''archconservative'' and ''arch conservative'' more than ''archliberal'' and ''arch liberal'' (both variations were included in the count) by a ratio of 20 to 1.

Furthermore, the key phrases far right, extreme right, and radical right are found almost twice as often as far left, extreme left, and radical left. Because Lexis/Nexis goes back as far as 1977 (in the case of the Washington Post), 1980 (for the New York Times and the Christian Science Monitor), and 1985 (for the Chicago Tribune and the Los Angeles Times), whatever right-wing extremism developed during the early-to-mid 1990s could not have been a major cause of this slant. Indeed, the same database shows the phrase ''right wing'' occurring more than 153,000 times, far more often than ''left wing.'' These milder phrases do not necessarily refer to bomb-throwing extremists; they often refer to politicians, writers, and academics. Much the same can be said for the key word ''ultraconservative'' and its variant, ''ultra conservative,'' which the table shows occurring 3.7 times more often than ''ultraliberal'' and ''ultra liberal.''
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n20_v48/ai_18819145/

This does predate the recent rebranding though.
 
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