Sphere as an embedded submanifold

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jem05
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Sphere
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of proving that a sphere is an embedded submanifold, specifically using a theorem related to embeddings of manifolds. Participants explore different approaches and clarify the context of the theorem, including the nature of the manifold in which the sphere is considered a submanifold.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to prove that a sphere is an embedded submanifold using a specific theorem about embeddings, but struggles to identify the embedding function.
  • Another participant emphasizes the necessity of specifying the manifold of which the sphere is a submanifold, suggesting that the theorem requires clarity on this point.
  • A later reply proposes using the identity map as a trivial embedding of the sphere into itself, while also questioning whether the focus is on proper submanifolds.
  • Another participant suggests defining the embedding as the inclusion of the n-sphere into the (n+1)-dimensional Euclidean space, asserting that this is indeed an embedding.
  • One participant expresses concern that the inclusion map being an embedding may be tautological, while another agrees and clarifies that the previous response did not intend to imply it was a non-trivial fact.
  • Further contributions mention that the inclusion map is the only straightforward embedding considered, with a few alternatives suggested.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the inclusion map as an embedding, but there is some debate regarding the implications of this fact and whether it is trivial. The discussion remains open regarding the best approach to proving the sphere as an embedded submanifold.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of specifying the manifold context and the nature of the submanifold, which may affect the validity of the proposed embeddings.

jem05
Messages
54
Reaction score
0
hello,
i already have 2 ways using 2 theorems to prove that a sphere is an embedded submanifold.
i just want to check if i can prove it using this specific theorem:
let M and N be manifolds
if \phi : M --> N is an embedding, then \phi (M) is an embedded submanifold.
because i am having trouble finding this \phi.
thank you.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Submanifold of what? It makes no sense to speak of a submanifold without referring to what manifold it's a submanifold of. For instance in your theorem you assert that \phi(M) is a submanifold of N.

If you don't care what manifold it's a submanifold of you can just use the rather trivial example of letting \phi : \mathbb{S}^n \to \mathbb{S}^n be the identity, and then getting that \mathbb{S}^n is a submanifold of itself (or do you perhaps only want to deal with proper submanifolds?).
 
yeah sorry, i forgot to mention in the theorem, a submanifold of N, as you said.
and i do want it a proper submanifold,
i guessed N might be R^3, for instance.
 
Well in that case you know the n-sphere is a subset of the (n+1)-dimensional Euclidean space \mathbb{S}^n \subseteq \mathbb{R}^{n+1}. \mathbb{R}^{n+1} is of course a manifold so we just define \phi : \mathbb{S}^n \to \mathbb{R}^{n+1} to be the inclusion \phi(x)=x. This is an embedding.
 
" Well in that case you know the n-sphere is a subset of the (n+1)-dimensional Euclidean space .S^n is of course a manifold so we just define Phi: S^n -->R^(n+1) to be the inclusion Phi(x)=x . This is an embedding." (Sorry,I don't know well how to use
quoting function)

I think this is somewhat tautological, i.e., that if A is a subset of X, A given
the subspace topology, then the inclusion map of A in X is an embedding
into X, but I may be wrong:

Given a space X, and a subspace A of X, the inclusion map i:A-->X is always an
embedding:

i) Let U be open in X. Then i^-1(U)=U/\A , open in subspace of A in X.

ii) Let V open in (A, subspace) . Then V=W/\A ; W open in X
then i(V) is open in the subspace topology of X.
 
Bacle said:
I think this is somewhat tautological, i.e., that if A is a subset of X, A given
the subspace topology, then the inclusion map of A in X is an embedding
into X, but I may be wrong:
This is correct. I'm sorry if I somehow conveyed with my post that it was a non-trivial fact. jem05 was asking for an embedding from the n-sphere into some larger topological space, so I just provided the simplest one I could think of.
 
ramshop wrote, in part:

" This is correct. I'm sorry if I somehow conveyed with my post that it was a non-trivial fact. jem05 was asking for an embedding from the n-sphere into some larger topological space, so I just provided the simplest one I could think of. "

No problem. It is the only one I can think of myself, other than maybe the cube, or
minor variations of it.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K