Step Validity with the Fourier Transform of Convolution

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of steps involved in using the Fourier Transform to compute a function through deconvolution, specifically in the context of convolution operations. Participants explore the implications of applying Fourier Transform properties to solve for a function given its convolution with another function.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a series of steps to compute ##f(x, y)## from the convolution equation using Fourier Transforms and questions their validity.
  • Another participant suggests testing the validity of the steps with simple exemplar functions, noting that working examples do not guarantee validity while failing examples confirm invalidity.
  • Concerns are raised about potential issues when ##\mathcal{F}\{h(x, y)\} = 0##, which could complicate the computation.
  • It is acknowledged that the process described is indeed deconvolution, with a caution that the approach may not be valid if the denominator has zeros or if noise is present in the known quantities.
  • One participant reflects on the context of deconvolution, indicating that the approach may be valid for analytical integral equations, while another participant confirms they are specifically deconvolving images.
  • Suggestions are made regarding the noise in results and the existence of various approaches and regularization techniques in the field of inverse problems.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the proposed steps, with some acknowledging potential issues while others suggest that the approach may still be applicable under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall validity of the steps in practical scenarios.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential for zeros in the Fourier Transform of the convolution kernel and the presence of noise in practical applications, which complicate the deconvolution process.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those involved in signal processing, image analysis, and mathematical modeling, particularly in the context of deconvolution and inverse problems.

ecastro
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A convolution can be expressed in terms of Fourier Transform as thus,

##\mathcal{F}\left\{f \ast g\right\} = \mathcal{F}\left\{f\right\} \cdot \mathcal{F}\left\{g\right\}##.

Considering this equation:

##g\left(x, y\right) = h\left(x, y\right) \ast f\left(x, y\right)##

Are these steps valid if I were to compute for ##f\left(x, y\right)##?

##\mathcal{F}\left\{g\left(x, y\right)\right\} = \mathcal{F}\left\{h\left(x, y\right) \ast f\left(x, y\right)\right\} \\

\mathcal{F}\left\{g\left(x, y\right)\right\} = \mathcal{F}\left\{h\left(x, y\right)\right\} \cdot \mathcal{F}\left\{f\left(x, y\right)\right\} \\

\frac{\mathcal{F}\left\{g\left(x, y\right)\right\}}{\mathcal{F}\left\{h\left(x, y\right)\right\}} = \mathcal{F}\left\{f\left(x, y\right)\right\} \\

\mathcal{F}^{-1}\left\{\frac{\mathcal{F}\left\{g\left(x, y\right)\right\}}{\mathcal{F}\left\{h\left(x, y\right)\right\}}\right\} = f\left(x, y\right)##

Thank you in advance.
 
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One way to quickly check for invalidity is to try it with a few simple exemplar functions. Working does not guarantee validity, but not working guarantees invalidity.
 
In principle it can be fine, but you will run into trouble at points where
<br /> \mathcal{F}\left\{h\left(x, y\right)\right\} = 0 <br />
This happens more often than you might think.

jason
 
jasonRF said:
In principle it can be fine, but you will run into trouble at points where
<br /> \mathcal{F}\left\{h\left(x, y\right)\right\} = 0<br />
This happens more often than you might think.

jason

Indeed. However, isn't solving for ##f\left(x, y\right)## the same as de-convolution?
 
Yes, this is deconvolution. As long as the denominator has no zeros and your known quantities (g and h) have NO noise, then the direct inversion you are proposing might be okay (EDIT: but also might not be okay!). In the real world, we usually have noise, and there can be zeros of functions, so deconvolution is more complicated. There are many many approaches ( I am not an expert in this)- you can find books, PhD dissertations, etc. on this topic. Google may help you. Note that deconvolution is an exmaple of an inverse problem, so google "inverse problems" and "deconvolution".

One short hit:
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Deconvolution.html

jason
 
ecastro,

I realize that I have been thinking about this in the framework of deconvolving images, or other numerical problems. If you are doing this to solve an analytical integral equation then your approach is certainly one that is used.

jason
 
jasonRF said:
ecastro,

I realize that I have been thinking about this in the framework of deconvolving images, or other numerical problems. If you are doing this to solve an analytical integral equation then your approach is certainly one that is used.

jason

I am actually deconvolving images. So, is the approach still valid?
 
You can try it and see how it goes - what have you got to lose? However, it is often the case that the result is very noisy - how noisy depends on the initial image, the kernel that you are dividing by, etc. There are a large number of approaches to this - when I google I see a huge amount of material. I have personally used CLEAN for a case were the image was sparse, and have worked with people that have used other approaches (maximum entropy based). There are a host of regularization techniques - the field of inverse problems deals with this kind of stuff. Astronomers and geophysicists work a lot in this field. good luck

jason
 
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Thank you for your information and references!
 

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