Stimulated Emission: Understanding Its Changing Rate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rate of stimulated emission in relation to spontaneous emission, particularly in the context of mathematical modeling as described in a Wikipedia article. Participants explore the conditions under which spontaneous emission can be neglected and the implications for the rate of change of population N2 in a system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about why the rate of change of N2 is attributed solely to stimulated emission, questioning the neglect of spontaneous emission.
  • Another participant clarifies that the article focuses exclusively on stimulated emission, implying that spontaneous emission is not considered in that context.
  • A further inquiry is made into the conditions under which spontaneous emission can be neglected, suggesting that it varies by system.
  • Another participant elaborates that spontaneous emission is not neglected but rather not included by definition when calculating the rate of decay due to stimulated emission alone.
  • The mathematical relationship involving the rates of spontaneous emission, stimulated emission, and absorption is presented, indicating that all three processes can be considered in a complete model.
  • Equations relating the coefficients of these processes are discussed, including their dependence on thermodynamic equilibrium and Boltzmann statistics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the treatment of spontaneous emission, with some arguing it can be neglected in certain systems while others emphasize that it is not considered in the specific context of stimulated emission calculations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of modeling emission processes and the assumptions involved, particularly regarding the neglect of spontaneous emission in certain theoretical frameworks.

BareFootKing
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I am having trouble understand why
96a7c20a95aa3406b6f4840982c7d586.png
is true I would think that the rate in which N2 is changing is the rate of stimulated emission and spontanous emission together. Why is it just the rate of stimulated emission


It is in the mathematical model section
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulated_emission
 
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That's because the article is about stimulated emission only. The spontaneous emission is neglected.
 
Why can we neglect spontaneous emission?
 
There are some systems where spontaneous emission can be neglected, and some where this is not possible. The article considers the first type only.
 
BareFootKing said:
I am having trouble understand why
96a7c20a95aa3406b6f4840982c7d586.png
is true I would think that the rate in which N2 is changing is the rate of stimulated emission and spontanous emission together. Why is it just the rate of stimulated emission
Actually, it's not that we neglect spontaneous emission in this case, it's that *we don't consider it* by definition, because we are computing the rate of decay by stimulated emission only.

If we consider *all 3 processes happening*, as it happens in every real system, then dN2/dt is:

dN2/dt = -N2 A21 - N2B21 ρ(\nu) + N1B12 ρ(\nu).

The 3 coefficients A21, B21 and B12 are defined by the relations:

1. Spontaneous emission dN2/dt = -A21N2
2. Stimulated emission dN2/dt = -B21N2 ρ(\nu)
3. Absorption: dN1/dt = -B12N1 ρ(\nu)

To find the relationship between the 3 coefficients we can consider a system at thermodynamic aequilibrium, in which ρ(\nu) is that of the blackbody:

ρ(\nu) = 8πh\nu3/c3 * 1/{exp(h\nu/kT)-1}

and in which N2/N1 is given by Boltzmann' statistic:

N2/N1 = exp{-(E2-E1)/kT} = exp{-h\nu/kT}.

At the aequilibrium, dN2/dt = 0 (as well as dN1/dt) so:

0 = -N2 A21 - N2B21 ρ(\nu) + N1B12 ρ(\nu)

Substituting the relations for ρ(\nu) and N2/N1 and understanding that the coefficients don't have to depend on T, it's easy to find:

i) A21 = 8πh\nu3/c3
ii) B12 = B21
 
Last edited:

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