Structure of an Atom: Quantum Physics & Basic Measurement

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the structure of an atom as described by quantum physics, including the possibility of measuring atomic properties such as the number of protons and neutrons, and how these measurements relate to the dimensions and characteristics of the atom. The scope includes theoretical aspects, measurement techniques, and the implications for understanding physical properties of elements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how quantum physics describes atomic structure and whether basic measurements can lead to calculations of other atomic properties.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the definitions of structure and dimensions in the context of atoms.
  • A different participant suggests that the physical properties of elements, such as color and boiling point, might be derivable from the number of nucleons and their masses, questioning if physicists have formalized this mathematically.
  • One participant asserts that single atoms do not possess color or boiling points, emphasizing that these properties emerge in solids and liquids, which are better understood through condensed matter physics.
  • It is noted that atoms and nuclei do not have definite sizes, and that the root mean square radius of wave functions can only be measured through scattering experiments.
  • A participant expresses interest in learning more about scattering experiments and seeks resources for further education in quantum physics.
  • Another participant provides links to resources for understanding scattering experiments and their theoretical background.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of atomic properties and measurements. There is no consensus on the definitions of structure and dimensions, nor on the implications of atomic measurements for understanding physical properties.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the ambiguity in defining atomic properties and the dependence on experimental techniques for measuring atomic dimensions. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with quantum mechanics among participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in quantum physics, atomic structure, and measurement techniques, particularly those seeking foundational knowledge in these areas.

nuby
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How does quantum physics describe the structure of an atom? Is it possible to take a basic measurement an atom such as the number of proton/neutrons, and calculate the rest of the dimensions/ and properties of that particular atom?
 
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How do you define structure and dimensions?
 
Not only structure but the physical properties of elements as well... colors, boiling point, mass, etc. It seems mother nature knows how to calculate all this from basically, the number of nucleons, nucleon mass, and the physical laws of that govern the universe. I'm curious if physicists have determined the math for this fact, yet.

By structure, I was thinking a measurable distance/length of nucleus, electron "smears" / orbitals, etc.

Thanks.
 
1. Single atoms done have colour nor boiling point. Try to define the colour and boiling point of an atom ;-)

If you want to learn how atoms and ions biuld up SOLIDS and LIQIUDS which have those criteria, then it is Condensate matter physics you are dealing with. And that is a rigor physical science which is well understood.

2. Atoms nor nuclei have definite size. One can only measure r.m.s radius of the wave functions by performing scattering experiments by probing the atoms with electrons, muons, neutrons etc. This also something that is well understood.

Now what do you want to learn more about? What a scattering experiment is? Just tell us. Also tell us your background, have you done quantum mechanics in college / university yet?
 
Scattering experiments is probably a good start for what I'm interested in. Where's a good place to learn about this, as well as results from scattering experiments? My quantum physics knowledge is pretty much ground level, and I don't have a formal (physics) education. But I'm interested in learning more. Thanks.
 
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Here are some good starting points:

http://www3.tsl.uu.se/thep/courses/QM/scattering-overview.pdf

http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/qmech/lectures/node130.html

This is the theory, experiment, you have a source of matter waves (electrons, photons, neutrons) - let them hit a target and detect their reflection pattern.
 
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