Supernova Shockwave: Finite or Energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of shockwaves produced by supernovae, specifically whether they are finite or behave like energy that dissipates over distance. Participants explore the potential effects of supernova shockwaves on solar systems and planetary motion, considering implications for long-term cosmic dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that supernova shockwaves are finite and dissipate over distance, questioning the idea that they could impart significant motion to distant objects.
  • Others argue that while shockwaves can affect nearby stars and planets, their influence diminishes significantly over larger distances, rendering any potential propulsion negligible.
  • A participant mentions that supernova shockwaves can trigger new star formation, but this does not imply significant propulsion for existing celestial bodies.
  • Concerns are raised about the scale of the universe and the relative strength of gravitational forces compared to the effects of supernova shockwaves.
  • Some participants clarify that while shockwaves can compress interstellar gas, solid bodies are not significantly affected unless they are very close to the supernova.
  • There is a discussion about the dynamics of shockwaves, comparing them to thunder and lightning, and the potential for radiation pressure to influence planets if they are not vaporized by the shockwave itself.
  • Participants note that high-velocity stars may not be directly pushed by shockwaves but could be remnants of stars that went supernova, suggesting a complex interplay of forces in stellar dynamics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the extent to which supernova shockwaves can affect distant celestial bodies, with some asserting that the effects are negligible while others suggest there may be some influence within certain distances. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall impact of supernova shockwaves on cosmic motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying definitions of "large" distances in relation to the effects of shockwaves, indicating that the understanding of these distances is not uniform. Additionally, there are unresolved questions about the specific distances at which shockwaves become ineffective and the conditions under which they might influence solid bodies versus gas.

Kruzeman
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I was wondering if a shockwave from a supernova is finite or reacts as energy and dissipates over distance.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if a supernova could give solarsystems, planets and basically anything with matter a nudge. Then could the objects in space act like a ion drive. Where over millions of years all the supernova's would increase the expanding speed of the original big bang.

ps with Ion drive I mean traveling through space with an Ion drive shooting small burst of energy. Since motion is endless in space all these tiny burst end up and in time you would be moving incredibely fast.

Why would this not apply to any object and explosion in space? Even if the effect would be unmeasureably small over biljon of years that could add up?
 
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The energy is finite. It therefore does dissipate. I'm not clear why you would think it could be any other way.
 
The "shockwave" is important for the supernova remnant itself. If it is asymmetric, it can gain significant velocity. It also affects stars and planets that are very near.
Over larger distances, the effect is unmeasurably small. Sure, it does add up, but so does gravity, which remains overwhelmingly stronger therefore.
 
Kruzeman said:
I was wondering if a shockwave from a supernova is finite or reacts as energy and dissipates over distance.

Yes.

The reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if a supernova could give solarsystems, planets and basically anything with matter a nudge. Then could the objects in space act like a ion drive.

Supernova shock waves do trigger new star formation.

Where over millions of years all the supernova's would increase the expanding speed of the original big bang.

Nope. Too small. Supernova shock disappear over a few hundred light years. The universe is billions of light years.

ps with Ion drive I mean traveling through space with an Ion drive shooting small burst of energy. Since motion is endless in space all these tiny burst end up and in time you would be moving incredibely fast.

Not really. One thing about waves is that it's possible to get hit by a wave and not move very much. Look at a water wave. The material moves back and forth, but it doesn't impart much acceleration.

Once the shock wave goes into the interstellar medium, it get's hot and dense, but things don't move very much.

Why would this not apply to any object and explosion in space? Even if the effect would be unmeasureably small over biljon of years that could add up?

Space is big. Really big. Stars are tiny and the energy from supernova doesn't add up to much.
 
Ich said:
Over larger distances, the effect is unmeasurably small. Sure, it does add up, but so does gravity, which remains overwhelmingly stronger therefore.

Depends on what you mean by "large". Supernova shock waves probably affect the interstellar medium within 100 light years or so. The effect of shock waves in the interstellar medium is quite large because the medium is not very dense.
 
Depends on what you mean by "large".
By "large" I mean more than far, far less than a lightyear.
But by "effect" I mean significant propulsion of stars or planets as in the OP, not compression of interstellar gas and such. Gas will sooner or later take all the energy of the shockwave, but solid bodies are (kinematically) not significantly affected except in the rare cases I mentioned.
 
Ich said:
By "large" I mean more than far, far less than a lightyear.
But by "effect" I mean significant propulsion of stars or planets as in the OP, not compression of interstellar gas and such. Gas will sooner or later take all the energy of the shockwave, but solid bodies are (kinematically) not significantly affected except in the rare cases I mentioned.

You have to be careful here. If you are close enough to the supernova, it's more likely that the planet is going to get vaporized by the shock wave than moved. Of the top of my head, I don't know what the distances are, but it would make a cool problem on an astrophysics problem set.

The other thing is that you have thunder and lighting. The shock wave is the thunder since it moves at the speed of sound. The initial burst of radiation is the lightning and that moves at the speed of light. If you are close enough, then radiation pressure from the initial burst will push planets assuming that they don't get vaporized.

Also there are a lot of high velocity objects

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_kinematics#High-velocity_stars

The idea is not that they were pushed by the shock wave, but rather they were orbiting around a star that went supernova and so that when the supernova went boom, they just zipped out of the system.
 

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