Superposition - is the theory valid?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Svenns
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Superposition Theory
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of the theory of electron superposition, particularly in light of claims that it has been recently overturned due to measurement errors. Participants explore the implications of these claims and the nature of electron behavior, contrasting classical and quantum perspectives.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express skepticism about the claim that electron superposition has been overturned, noting the lack of references to support this assertion.
  • One participant emphasizes that electron diffraction and interference experiments provide clear evidence of quantum superposition.
  • Another participant argues against the analogy of electrons as "orbs" or "planets," stating that this misrepresents their behavior and the nature of atomic orbitals.
  • It is mentioned that the probability of finding electrons around the nucleus is better described by atomic orbitals rather than classical trajectories.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of the stationary states of electrons, noting that while these states are time-independent, the kinetic energy suggests that electrons must be moving in some sense.
  • A participant references their own paper discussing wave functions as superpositions, indicating a nuanced view of electron behavior that does not necessarily align with classical interpretations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the validity of the claims regarding electron superposition. Multiple competing views remain, particularly regarding the interpretation of electron behavior and the implications of experimental evidence.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific interpretations of quantum mechanics and the nature of stationary states, which may not be universally accepted. The discussion also highlights the potential confusion between classical and quantum descriptions of electron behavior.

Svenns
Messages
2
Reaction score
1
Hello
My friend claims that the theory of electron superposition has been overturned recently. That this was due to measurement errors, and that electrons fly like orbs and planets in orbits, but I can not find any sources.
I am asking for an answer, thank you very much.
(I'm sorry, I have no Idea what's going about with prefix)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Svenns said:
Hello
My friend claims that the theory of electron superposition has been overturned recently. That this was due to measurement errors, and that electrons fly like orbs and planets in orbits, but I can not find any sources.
I am asking for an answer, thank you very much.
(I'm sorry, I have no Idea what's going about with prefix)
Welcome to the PF. :smile:

Without some references or links, it will be hard to answer your question. Can you ask your friend where s/he read it? If it's in a pop-sci article, we probably can't discuss it here unless there is a peer-reviewed article that the pop-sci article is based on...
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Svenns
OK
I'll try ask him tonight
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: berkeman
Svenns said:
Hello
My friend claims that the theory of electron superposition has been overturned recently. That this was due to measurement errors, and that electrons fly like orbs and planets in orbits, but I can not find any sources.
I am asking for an answer, thank you very much.
(I'm sorry, I have no Idea what's going about with prefix)

One thing has nothing to do with the other, i.e. "electron superposition" and "electrons fly like orbs and planets in orbits". Your friend (and possibly you) are confused.

The fact that we have electron diffraction experiments and electron interference experiments are clear illustrations of quantum superposition. Tell your friend that!

Zz.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba, vanhees71 and berkeman
Svenns said:
...electrons fly like orbs and planets in orbits...

And a comment in passing: electrons in an atom are nothing like "orbs" (or little planets), and do not travel in anything like an "orbit".
 
ZapperZ said:
The fact that we have electron diffraction experiments and electron interference experiments are clear illustrations of quantum superposition. Tell your friend that!
Zz.
It's even applied in electron microscopes!
 
Svenns said:
and that electrons fly like orbs and planets in orbits, but I can not find any sources.
No, instead there is a probability to find electrons around the nucleus, look up Atomic Orbital
 
Every experiment of which I am aware (and in fairness there will be many of which I am not) give results consistent with that of a wave equation, and waves superimpose. The experiments, of course, get the wave picture by collecting many particles, or by interpreting the wave in terms of probabilities. The electron moves around a nucleus because it has an energy of interaction with the nucleus, and from the viral theorem, the kinetic energy equals the total energy, but of opposite sign. if it has kinetic energy it must be moving, however, that motion is not that of a classical trajectory, not the least reason being that if it followed a classical trajectory it would violate the Uncertainty Principle because in principle it would be possible to assign position and momentum to each point on it.
 
Well, what you describe seems to refer to the stationary states of an electron around a nucleus (something like a hydrogen-like ion, i.e., an atom stripped off its electrons except one). Then, however the electron doesn't "move", since a stationary state is one which is time-independent by construction.
 
  • #10
The stationary state solution to the Schrödinger equation nominates ψ as what is stationary, not the electron. The stationary state Schrödinger equation for hydrogen has a kinetic energy term that is not equal to zero, hence it must move on any normal interpretation of kinetic energy. As an aside, if you accept my paper (Aust. J. Phys. 40: 329 -346 (1987) describing the ionisation and excited state energies for heavy atoms, these are best interpreted as the actual wave functions being superpositions, but of course that does not make it so.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 244 ·
9
Replies
244
Views
15K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K