Superposition/Wave function inside blackhole

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Derrezed
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Blackhole Function
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between quantum mechanics (QM) and black holes, particularly focusing on the implications of superposition and wave functions within the event horizon of a black hole. Participants explore concepts related to observation, singularities, and analogies to quantum systems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that within the event horizon of a black hole, all matter would be in superposition, implying that mass should be considered as waves rather than particles due to the absence of an observer.
  • Another participant challenges the notion of a singularity at the event horizon, asserting that it is merely a point of no return and that one could theoretically enter a super-massive black hole without immediate destruction.
  • There is a discussion about the inability of observers outside the event horizon to gain information about what occurs inside, reinforcing the idea that it is a point of no return for all matter and waves.
  • One participant raises a question about whether a black hole can be considered a perfect example of a particle in a box, drawing parallels between the confinement of particles and the nature of black holes.
  • Another participant acknowledges the analogy of a black hole to a particle in a box but expresses skepticism about the ease of calculating energy eigenstate wavefunctions in the context of black holes, noting that they are not entirely isolated systems due to black hole radiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of singularities and the implications of observation within black holes. There is no consensus on the interpretation of wave functions in this context, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the analogy of black holes to quantum systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of defining the wave function and the nature of black holes, indicating that these topics are not settled and depend on various interpretations and assumptions.

Derrezed
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
So I am just starting to understand QM and relating it to my own ideas...

Within the event horizon of a black hole there can be no conscience observer, so all matter held within would be in superposition and in no way could we collapse the wave function of a particle. So doesn't that mean all mass within would need to be considered waves and not particles? I mean i know all matter is both waves and particles but basically this means in no way could a singularity be considered to have a definite point in space. Or am I missing something?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Derrezed said:
So I am just starting to understand QM and relating it to my own ideas...

Within the event horizon of a black hole there can be no conscience observer...

This is not true. There is no singularity at the horizon. It is just the point of no return. You could enter the event horizon of a super-massive black hole and die a peaceful death of old age. If the black hole is large enough it could contain entire (doomed) civilizations.

SkippyPS The rest of your question involves the nature of the "wave function"; physically real wave or mathematical object describing my knowledge of a quantum system. Many discussions of this on this forum. It is not a settled question.
 
skippy1729 said:
This is not true. There is no singularity at the horizon. It is just the point of no return. You could enter the event horizon of a super-massive black hole and die a peaceful death of old age. If the black hole is large enough it could contain entire (doomed) civilizations.

Skippy
But for those of us outside the event horizon there is no way to observe what's inside? cause it is the point of no return for all matter and waves so no information leaves it.
 
Derrezed said:
But for those of us outside the event horizon there is no way to observe what's inside? cause it is the point of no return for all matter and waves so no information leaves it.

Yes, this is true.
 
Hmm... this question does make me wonder though. Is a black hole a perfect example of a particle in a box?
 
Runner 1 said:
Hmm... this question does make me wonder though. Is a black hole a perfect example of a particle in a box?

In that it can't escape, yes, and you can consider the event-horizon analogous to the "infinite potential" of the box. But the point of a particle in a box is that it's very easy to calculate the energy eigenstate wavefunctions. I somehow doubt it'll be the case in a black hole.

Also, you'll recall that black holes radiate information, after all. So not entirely an isolated system.
 

Similar threads

Graduate Can particles appear and disappear "with" a cause?
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
High School Can someone please explain to me the motion of an electron?
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
High School Question about quantum superposition
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Undergrad What do the wave functions of real particles look like?
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
Undergrad Material Waves and Wave Functions
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Undergrad Is There A Study Showing The Observer Effect Ignoring Conscious Intent?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
High School What Happens When a Photon’s Superposition Encounters a Black Hole?
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
Undergrad Common features of set theory and wave functions?
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
Undergrad Wave function collapse and measurement rule
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Undergrad Question regarding quantum mechanics from relativity perspective
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K